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-   -   Fake service dogs really chap my hide. (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/971608-fake-service-dogs-really-chap-my-hide.html)

sammyg2 11-13-2017 07:36 AM
One of my nieces told me recently that they got the (BS) paperwork to certify their dog was an "emotional support dog".
They did that because they want to take their dog with them on vacation this year. The darn thing isn't even trained!

After telling them what I thought, I'm pretty sure I won't be getting a Christmas card from them this year.

sammyg2 11-13-2017 07:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile (Post 9812695)
Why are so many people here so overly concerned with what other people do?

Seriously, lighten up and butt out. If people want to travel with their pets, let them. It it really hurting you any?

Some of you guys seem to get no pleasure out of life unless it involves sticking your noses into what other people do. What a sad way to live!

It doesn't really bother me if people bring their pets (dogs, usually) into a coffee shop or wherever else I am 99% of the time. Of course if they're being irresponsible a-holes and not watching them, or if the animals are acting up, making a ruckus, etc. then it's a different story (but how often does this happen? I've never seen it).

If someone had a "service" pit bull I might think differently (I don't trust those dogs, sorry - just don't - they're bred to kill and it's in their nature deep down) but again, I've never seen it.

For the most part, live and let live. Lighten up.
Some folks know the difference between right and wrong, some don't.
Those who do are bothered when low-lifes lie and cheat and get away with it just because they can.

Others like the bar set as low as possible because it makes their lives easier.

speeder 11-13-2017 08:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legion (Post 9812815)
Around here, I've never seen anyone abuse the service dog laws. I've only regularly seen two: a lady who is obviously blind with a seeing eye dog, and a girl who gets physical therapy at my gym who clearly has some neurological disorder (I assume the dog is for seizures). If either of them are faking it, they are going to great lengths. The lady takes Uber everywhere and the girl has a walker.

The only other place I regularly see dogs is at Bass Pro--which explicitly allows them.
Those would be examples of legitimate service animals which is not what this thread is about. I've never heard anyone complaining about them and I've never seen one misbehave.

Why would you attempt to conflate the two things? :confused:

speeder 11-13-2017 08:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILXLR8 (Post 9812782)
Unfortunately I experienced this issue a few months ago.

I own a condo unit in a resort town, South Haven, MI. When we are not using it, I rent it by the week.
Our lease states "NO SMOKING & NO PETS" at the top of the lease.
Well, I got a call from the management company about a dog in our unit, since it is a no pet building.
When I approached the tenants and told them that the dog must be removed, I was told that it is a emotional support animal and it is staying.
They then called the police, good old "hillbilly style" in an attempt to have me arrested for denying a service animal.
Unfortunately since this scam is in its infant stage, the police and I did not have much knowledge or experience in the area, so they "kept the piece" and I chose to leave.
The next day, after going around a few times with the tenant, I talked to their attorney. The attorney and I had a chat and the dog was removed from the property.

What did I learn?
1) A emotional support animal is NOT a service animal! They are two different things, with two different set of rules. ADA only supports service animals.
2) Scammers act in a different manner than legit people. For example scammers will try to get away with it to not get caught rather than asking for a accommodation.
3) True service animals act different as well.
4) Misrepresenting a pet as a service animal is a misdemeanor in many states.
5) This scam is getting very common, so people can have their pets travel with them at no charge, while sitting next to them in the aircraft rather than in a crate in the baggage area.
6) If I had the proper knowledge ahead of time, things would have been more simple. See #4

How did this affect me?
1) I had to travel several hours to the rental unit to take care of the problem.
2) I invested major time in proper research to take car of the problem.
3) I had to have the carpets cleaned immediately, since the unit smelled like dog and also to not misrepresent my rental to future tenants.
4) I spent time to dispute pet charges and prove my position to the management company since, in their eyes, I broke the association rules.
5) I had to deal with fallout from this, such as my personal allergies.
You have my sympathy. It sucks dealing w people like that in any circumstance. :(

legion 11-13-2017 09:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by speeder (Post 9812937)
Those would be examples of legitimate service animals which is not what this thread is about. I've never heard anyone complaining about them and I've never seen one misbehave.

Why would you attempt to conflate the two things? :confused:
I'm not conflating anything. I've never seen anyone with a "fake" service dog. It's not a problem around here. I provided examples of real service dogs.

Rick Lee 11-13-2017 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by legion (Post 9812989)
I'm not conflating anything. I've never seen anyone with a "fake" service dog. It's not a problem around here. I provided examples of real service dogs.
Really? When I was a kid, service dogs were pretty rare and really stood out because they always had a special, sort of triangular, harness you never saw anyone else using to walk their dogs. Now I see them on a near daily basis and never with those special harnesses anymore. I work from home, so I'm not out and about too much during the week. But between my near daily trips to the gym and grocery store, I see one several times a week and every single time I'm in an airport.

Jeff Higgins 11-13-2017 09:25 AM
Ed performs an invaluable service for me - he finds dead birds and brings them back after I shoot them. Does that count?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1510593554.JPG

ILXLR8 11-13-2017 10:53 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammyg2 (Post 9812892)
One of my nieces told me recently that they got the (BS) paperwork to certify their dog was an "emotional support dog".
They did that because they want to take their dog with them on vacation this year. The darn thing isn't even trained!

After telling them what I thought, I'm pretty sure I won't be getting a Christmas card from them this year.
Is you niece named Sidney Schech? :confused:

Unfortunately their is no registration for Emotional Support Animals. Any tags or any certificate is purchased on the internet. They even sell doctors notes for this purpose.

Google "emotional support animal scam". You will see the true scope of the problem.

sammyg2 11-13-2017 11:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILXLR8 (Post 9813143)
Is you niece named Sidney Schech? :confused:

Unfortunately their is no registration for Emotional Support Animals. Any tags or any certificate is purchased on the internet. They even sell doctors notes for this purpose.

Google "emotional support animal scam". You will see the true scope of the problem.
No, that is not her name.
And she did "obtain"the bogus paperwork from the internet so they could take their dog on the plane with them when they vacationed back east.

Which contributed to my vocalized disapproval.

RKDinOKC 11-13-2017 03:39 PM
Just Google "Service Dog" and the top of the page is an ad for someone that provides fake "legal" certification so "You can take your dog anywhere."

They need their site hacked or at least DOS attacked. Or at the very least Google contacted to make them take the ad down.

Jeff, Ed is called a sporting dog.

Porsche-O-Phile 11-13-2017 03:57 PM
If people aren't cleaning up after their dogs, that's a completely separate issue.

As far as "knowing right from wrong", what a load. It seems the "right" thing to do is let other people do what gives them a little no-harm-to-you happiness in life and the "wrong" thing to do is to be a dick to them.

Some of you guys are serious control freaks and need to chillax - big time. Stress is a major risk factor for all kinds of diseases and conditions and if you're self-imposing stress on yourself by getting all worked up about what other people do all the time (especially for trivial things like this!), you're only doing yourself a disservice and shortening your own lifespan. I don't really like the idea of someone "gaming the system" just so their pet can fly with them but OTOH if they figured out a way to get around the rule, more power to them. Maybe the rule needs to be changed, or maybe we need to all start doing the same thing so all of our pets all get to fly in the cabin instead of being treated like property. How d'ya think rules change and adapt? Because people start pushing back on the stupid ones, that's how.

On that note, have you ever bothered to look into the laws surrounding pets? They're woefully behind the times and usually DO treat them as property - this came to light a few years ago when Chinese pet food (gluten, specifically) started killing American pets en masse. Quite a few families lost a beloved member of their household and then were told, "too bad, your recovery is limited to $100 based on this 19th Century Law" when they looked to sue the responsible company (BTW the company did "wrong" in that case, despite the fact that they were a big corporation and therefore automatically blameless and faultless in the distorted world view of some of those here...) Total insult to injury. They deserved better.

A lot of these people probably just love their pets and are trying to protect them from what really is pretty crappy treatment in some situations. Maybe if our society (and its laws) actually started protecting animals a bit better to reflect that...

But yea - some of you guys have some serious control issues. Get over it.

RKDinOKC 11-13-2017 06:14 PM
In the 70's my brother got divorced in CA. He got their wonderful and loving Siamese cat. He moved back home bringing the cat. They flew and the cat was put in a animial carrier and packed as luggage. When he got his cat back is was insane. Would not let anyone get close to or touch it. We lived for 7 years having to be wary of that cat and it's random attacks. My mom just could bring herself to have it medicated or put down. She would just say it wasn't the cat's fault.

I can understand why people want to keep the pets in the cabin with them when they fly.

Jeff Higgins 11-13-2017 06:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by RKDinOKC (Post 9813478)
Jeff, Ed is called a sporting dog.
We call Ed a lot of things, but "sporting" isn't one of them. He has no sense of fair play or chivalry.

cairns 11-14-2017 06:12 AM
Quote:
If people aren't cleaning up after their dogs, that's a completely separate issue.

As far as "knowing right from wrong", what a load. It seems the "right" thing to do is let other people do what gives them a little no-harm-to-you happiness in life and the "wrong" thing to do is to be a dick to them.

Some of you guys are serious control freaks and need to chillax - big time. Stress is a major risk factor for all kinds of diseases and conditions and if you're self-imposing stress on yourself by getting all worked up about what other people do all the time (especially for trivial things like this!), you're only doing yourself a disservice and shortening your own lifespan. I don't really like the idea of someone "gaming the system" just so their pet can fly with them but OTOH if they figured out a way to get around the rule, more power to them. Maybe the rule needs to be changed, or maybe we need to all start doing the same thing so all of our pets all get to fly in the cabin instead of being treated like property. How d'ya think rules change and adapt? Because people start pushing back on the stupid ones, that's how.

On that note, have you ever bothered to look into the laws surrounding pets? They're woefully behind the times and usually DO treat them as property - this came to light a few years ago when Chinese pet food (gluten, specifically) started killing American pets en masse. Quite a few families lost a beloved member of their household and then were told, "too bad, your recovery is limited to $100 based on this 19th Century Law" when they looked to sue the responsible company (BTW the company did "wrong" in that case, despite the fact that they were a big corporation and therefore automatically blameless and faultless in the distorted world view of some of those here...) Total insult to injury. They deserved better.

A lot of these people probably just love their pets and are trying to protect them from what really is pretty crappy treatment in some situations. Maybe if our society (and its laws) actually started protecting animals a bit better to reflect that...

But yea - some of you guys have some serious control issues. Get over it.
I'm with you. I'd rather sit next to a dog on a plane than a lot of the people I've seen flying. Better manners and they don't smell. Besides we've seen what United does to pets, guitars and Chinese doctors.

CurtEgerer 11-14-2017 06:51 AM
Yeah, that's what I want to do: fly on plane where everybody has their stinky, shedding dogs and cats with them and then go eat at a diner with some mangy dog humping my leg under the table. Great idea. :rolleyes::D

Rick Lee 11-14-2017 06:55 AM
I really wonder what's going to happen when too many people with fake service dogs book on the same flight, and there happens to be a real service dog or two also booked. If it hasn't happened yet, it will. Then what? Airline is going to demand to dogs' training credentials? Rebook on other flights? Finally put their foot down on all this BS and just not allow any animals at all? When, not if, this happens, you can thank the fake service dog owners for it.

ossiblue 11-14-2017 09:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Lee (Post 9814135)
I really wonder what's going to happen when too many people with fake service dogs book on the same flight, and there happens to be a real service dog or two also booked. If it hasn't happened yet, it will. Then what? Airline is going to demand to dogs' training credentials? Rebook on other flights? Finally put their foot down on all this BS and just not allow any animals at all? When, not if, this happens, you can thank the fake service dog owners for it.
There is a different law in this scenario^^.

Airlines are covered by the Airline Carrier Access Act (ACAA) which allows passengers to travel with emotional support animals as well as real service dogs. To do so, however, passengers with non-ADA service dogs can be required to show documented proof that the animal is required for support--documentation on a letterhead that is no more than one year old, that states the passenger has a mental health issue that is being addressed, and is signed by a currently licensed "mental health professional" that is treating them. The airlines can also set their own policies regarding prior notification of boarding with an animal other than a real service dog.

The airlines cannot "put their foot down" as you propose. They must allow both real service dogs and documented (if they so choose to enforce) emotional support animals on board. If the situation gets as bad as you suggest, the airlines can begin requiring documented proof of emotional support animals, along with prior notification to the airline that the animal will be making a flight. These two demands do not apply to legitimate service dogs. However, once again, there is no way to really "prove" a dog is a ADA service dog beyond the owner's word or, perhaps, their voluntary documented proof of training.

cairns 11-14-2017 09:08 AM
Quote:
Yeah, that's what I want to do: fly on plane where everybody has their stinky, shedding dogs and cats with them and then go eat at a diner with some mangy dog humping my leg under the table. Great idea.
Or you could fly with this:

https://www.flyertalk.com/articles/look-at-this-passenger-who-was-apparently-raised-by-wolves.html

I know which one would upset me more.

Gogar 11-14-2017 10:23 AM
The "emotional support dog" thing won't go away soon,

Because the airlines are ok with it.

That little dog under the seat is worth an extra $100 to them.

Gogar 11-14-2017 10:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Lee (Post 9813001)
Really? When I was a kid, service dogs were pretty rare and really stood out because they always had a special, sort of triangular, harness you never saw anyone else using to walk their dogs. Now I see them on a near daily basis and never with those special harnesses anymore.

I think maybe you're thinking of a harness for a 'seeing eye dog.' Different.

You're still right because back in the day the 'seeing eye dog' was really the only kind of service animal out there.


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