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CJFusco 02-08-2003 09:24 AM

Answer what other parts of your statement? I only see one part with question marks (you see, you can only "answer" something if there is a question), and it is "where exactly are you getting your information????" Okay, well I don't know exactly what you mean about "information," but I have several sources of "information." BBC is great, and much less biased than CNN (although I do watch CNN). Howard Zinn's books and articles are amazing. Ditto Noam Chomsky. TIME, Newsweek, Rolling Stone, just about any magazine concerned with politics, I snatch it up.

And what issues am I avoiding? That is the last issue you posed that I had yet to answer, I believe.

overkill 02-08-2003 09:56 AM

You know,... about the economy,... they have been talking alot about it on the news too.

"Reasons this war might be good for the economy." - Fox

I have been watching alot of the news lately and they have been talking alot about stocks and such. What to buy? "Well, when the stock drop,... BUY BUY BUY! When the war is over SELL SELL SELL!". Bassically. I am not very political. I'm lucky that I even know how to spell it. I had gathered the idea that there are going to be people looking to take advantage of this. This is why I hate PEOPLE or should I say HUMANS,... Some people think that this war is necessary and Sadam and AlQeada has to go down because they are a MAJOR threat to the US of A. God, I know what I have to say but don't know how to word it. I am scared for myself and my family and mankind. People are going DIE. That is eating me up alive!!! There are alot of people out there that feel the same. Then there are people that are friggin greedy that are going to use this to thier financial advantage. These people do not give a **** about the people that are going to die because of this. The only thing they care about is that we win so that thier stocks rise, they make money, and they live long enough to make more money and spend it. The greed. My mother is a Jehovah’s Witnesses and in the begining of my life she tried to get me to follow her, them. Although I say I am not religious. Her teachings have some what touched me and I am in a state of "I don't know". I think I am the way I am because of her and her effort to get me to follow. I don't want to get into more detail because you guyz might not like it and I dont know to much about it anyways. Sorry.

CJFusco 02-08-2003 10:03 AM

Score another one for overkill.

Overkill, you're scared. We all are... the difference being that you are rational enough to recognize that just because you're scared doesn't mean that we have to take measures that could get a lot of people killed. You say you don't follow politics, and that's fine; I kinda wish you did, though, because I think you would agree with my point of view, as controversial as it is.

fty 02-08-2003 10:11 AM

I didnt enlist and am not drafted.....and I still get a gas mask and biosuits....hope brooklyn doesnt get gased or bombed....all i have to say...

overkill 02-08-2003 10:32 AM

I do understand CJ.

944freak 02-08-2003 12:36 PM

You guys wanna know something..... I have some friends in Kuwait now and one of my best friends will be there very very soon, when I can't say for security reasons. I've spoken to my friends and they are all scared, but they all believe in what we are doing and know what the risks are. I was talking with my really good friend that is leaving soon and he told me in one of those emotional drunken speaches about how he's scared he's going to lose his life and how he's gonna miss me and his family and everyone. He also said that he is ready to give his life to protect you guys everyone in the USA. Bush is taking care of things that should have never esculated to this point. North Korea is probally gonna be next on the list. If we don't stop them now who can say they won't use thir "wepons of mass destruction" This is the only way to do it. We all know that the inspections will not work. We're all scared, some more than others, some won't admit it. You guys know what I'm saying? Just trying to tell how it is from a service members standpoint. Maybe some of us hear more, know more about whats going on because it's our job and we're a part of OEF. I wish the world could just be a happy place so I could put my SC kit on...........................

overkill 02-08-2003 01:23 PM

944Freak, I am scared for your friends and hope they come back to you.

FTY, are you a cop? Wht do you do? Why did you get a BIO suit and mask?

You know, if my mother didn't introduce me to what they call the "truth",... to be honest, I would probably be out there with the soldiers. Then maybe not? I don't know. I am a very emotional person and I doubt that has anything to do with my being subjected to my mothers religion. Let's put it this way,... if I was never subjected to it there would be a good 50/50 chance that I would be out there with them. But then again, I am about whats right and I dont know enough about the politics to judge and even guess. CJ makes sence. The news makes sence once mated with what I some what know about Sadam. I am not at all scared to loose my life,... to help others. If we all live through this,... after I am done with nursing school, I want to volunteer as a firefighter or a rescue squad, I think I am shooting more towards a fire fighter though. I have no problem what so ever risking my life in situation like that. Saving people from burning buildings, car accidents, etc. You want to know what my role in all this? I want to be the fire fighter that died trying to save all those people in the twin towers that day on the 11th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is my job.

CJFusco 02-08-2003 01:28 PM

I hope that you and your friends will be okay over there, 944freak. You are right that things should have never gotten this far. I admire that you would be willing to give your life for what you believe in - I would be to, if I believed in what Bush is doing. But I don't. And that is where we differ.

But I do hope for nothing but the safety of our troops in the middle east, and if things do escalate to the point where there is an all-out war, you and all the soldiers serving overseas will be in my prayers.

944freak 02-08-2003 02:23 PM

Thanks CJ I understand your viewpoint as well.

overkill 02-08-2003 02:31 PM

Lets just hope there is no war, even though it doesnt look good. What is up with the soldiers BIO masks? There was this guy that called up the news station and told them that the masks were defective and were not going to work. He said the there is not engouh rubber where the mask meets the neck/ chin. When the soldier moves his mouth theres a seperation between skin and mask. I think he said he was in the Gulf War and that he is or was some specialist. Then there was this other guy that basically didnt fight the other guys facts. He said that this is not the time to bring something like that up. What kinda **** is that? All the technological advances we have and we can't design a full proof bio mask?

Roger Hall 02-08-2003 06:33 PM

Live free or die. isn't that Delawars state moto?

Truth is just about all of you have valid points. Its about politics, oil, WOMD, terorism, economics, George's approval rating, and projecting American policy. There are alot of people and a lot of agenda's at play. Remember also the fundamental differences between Judeo/Christianity and Islam. There were the Crusades in the middle ages. We sent the Marines over there to rescue hostages in the 1800's. The Marine's still sing "from the halls of Montazuma to the shores of Tripoli". Tripoli is Lybia if I remember correctly. We sent the Navy to attack the Barbary Coast Pirates in the 1800's. We have a different view of basic human rights. The individual means little and women mean nothing in Islam. Our society is based on the rights of the individual. If we can not get along we can kick the living sh it outa them.

I do not want war and Islam, Judaisium, and Christianity are peacefull and do not teach hatered or violience. Its us human's who teach those qualities, and the greatest attrocities in history are caused by man. One of my favorite lines is form Dennis Leary "Where does hatered come from? Its not learned its tought. I have a 3 year old you know what he hates brocoli".

If people threaten my freinds and family I am really proud of the brave men and women that are willing do defend us. I wish them Gods speed and a safe return.

lambic2000 02-08-2003 09:57 PM

If one is not willing to die for their country because of some ideological disagreement with their government, then maybe the best place for that one is somewhere else living under another government that espouses their beliefs. The day I disagree with a military action that my government decides upon will be the day I leave this country. I would be a hypocrite to remain under the freedom provided by the stars and stripes.

Stephen

Verruckt 02-08-2003 11:03 PM

Thank You lambic2000, well said.
If you don't like what your govt. is doing, vote for someone else next time the elections roll around. It is your right.

Support your military. A very common line in YOUR military today is "I may not agree with a damn word you are saying, but I will fight to the death, for your RIGHT to say it.

Baza 02-09-2003 12:27 AM

One point everyone seems to be missing. It is not just the US in this it is the U.N. (United Nations). Who is the U.N. they are supposed to be the worlds police force. Pryor to Xmas they gave Suddam a warning and told him what would happen if he did not comply. Now what would happen if you were told by the police not to speed for 12 years without giving you a ticket?
Its the same thing here only bigger this thing should have been finished 12 years ago but the U.N. lost its testicles. Now we must act if we do not any smaller nation with an atitude will tell the U.N. to stick it were the sun don't shine, and then were will we be. As for Korea once the U.N. proves that it has the will it will back down.

As for myself I have 2 sons in the Australian Infantry Forces (AIF) and I would be devicetated if I lost even 1 of them. But if we (the U.N.) do not stop this now we may as well disband the U.N. build a wall around our respective countries and not talk to anybody on the other side of that wall.

Q. What good is a law without punishment?

A. Pandamonium


Barry
Proud to be Australian. Even prouder of my SONS

CJFusco 02-09-2003 08:12 AM

I hear the "why wouldn't you fight and die for your country?" argument from conservatives and supporters of the war effort a lot. The fact of the matter is that I would fight and die if I believed what the miltary forces were doing was right and good. I would be an enormous hippocrite if I denounced the actions of the Bush administration and then found myself in a desert with a M16 in my hands firing clip after clip into an "enemy" that I didn't even want to attack in the first place.

Please try to understand: I am not an anarchist or communist (though a lot of my friends are). I am simply a strongly-opinioned slightly pacifistic political junkie. Why not move to another country that supports my ideals? Because I love America, I love New England, I love this city of Boston, I love the area that I am originally from (central CT). So you might say, if you love it so much, why won't you give your life to defend it? I would, if I thought Sadam was as big a threat as everyone thinks he is. He isn't, right now... but we ARE backing him into a corner and he is getting desperate. Right now, we SHOULD be concentrating on cleaning up the factions of Tali ban forces and with trying to smooth things over with N. Korea as much as possible.

Oh, and as far as voting goes, I always vote... but seeing as I am from CT, my liberal vote is pretty much useless in the sea of other liberal votes - for the electoral college dictates that the CT vote goes to the Democrat, but there are more Republican territories this time around than Democratic ones. I think they should change the system - popular votes should be it, man.

Roger Hall 02-09-2003 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Verruckt

Support your military. A very common line in YOUR military today is "I may not agree with a damn word you are saying, but I will fight to the death, for your RIGHT to say it.

Freedom of speach is one of the rights we have. If the goverment is doing something you do not belive in then speak out. Speaking against the goverment is not wrong. Remember womens sufferage, or the civil rights movment.

If you dont agree with the person who is speaking against the goverment you can speak up. You can tell them to leave the country if they dont appreciate it.

"We the people of the United States of America in order to form a more perfect union establish that all men are born with certian inailienable rights". Its a right that can not be taken away. Its not a privilage that can be handed out and later revoked because I dissagree with your oppinion. The question is not do you belive in the actions of the current administration? The question is do you belive in the principles that our country was founded on?

I belive that the middle east represents a great threat. That threat requires millitary action. Will war solve the problem? I doubt that it will. I do belive it will reduce the threat.

My respect and admiration to those who will fight to protect my rights. If not for them we would still be an English colony or maybe we would all be speaking Russian. God speed and a safe return.

carolinus 02-09-2003 09:22 AM

My 2.5 Cents:
 
I have to throw in my 2.5 cents.

Is Saddam Hussein screwing his people really good? Yes.

Is Saddam lying to us about having WMD? Yes.

Does our administration really give a flying F&@K about that? No.

We know that Isreal has WMD, and we know that the Indians and the Pakistani's have them, too. We are relatively certain that several of the Balkan nations that were formerly Russian are selling the required componentry and knowledge for the manufacture of nuclear weapons. North Korea isn't even worth mentioning here.

Ask yourself, where is the money? Pakistan? North Korea? No. The money is in Iraq in the form of Oil. If there ever was a war that was perpetrated in the interest of money, none is as blatant as the one we are about to have in the Middle East.

We put Saddam there in the first place, and he hasn't changed a bit from the last time we were there.

That being said, I support the poor souls our government is going to employ for this "humanitarian" bloodbath. I will not degrade a member of my armed forces because of what is about to happen, because it is in the hands of the politicians in our country.

lambic2000 02-09-2003 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by CJFusco
I don't smoke pot regularly.
If you don't think Saddam is a threat or could become a threat to the United States either directly or indirectly, then your living in La La Land. Maybe you smoke pot a little more than you think you do. I respect dissent but not when it comes to our troops who continue to lay their lives on the line for our country despite where our country sends them or the reason therein. Also, don't you watch the news? A few days ago, Saddam ordered his top generals to use chemical weapons on any invading force. And, have you forgot that Saddam plotted the assassination of George Bush the Senior? If you don't think a leader of another country should be removed on the grounds of plotting assassinations on leaders or former leaders of another country, then you do believe in anarchy. Let me guess, you also believe that the foreign policy of the United States of America led to September 11th and somehow we are partly at fault?

Stephen

lambic2000 02-09-2003 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by carolinus
The money is in Iraq in the form of Oil. If there ever was a war that was perpetrated in the interest of money, none is as blatant as the one we are about to have in the Middle East.

We put Saddam there in the first place.

You really think that the world will just stand by and let the United States "steal" all of the oil in Iraq? Also, provide your proof that our government's intention is to "steal" all of the oil. You stated that it was blatantly clear that this war is perpetuated in the interest of money. Well, prove it. Since when did we put Saddam in power? That's a new one to me.

Stephen

Blackfoot 02-09-2003 09:46 AM

to those who think u.s. motives are driven only by "oil", i have a question. what happened last time, twelve years ago, when we protected kuwait after saddam invaded it? did the u.s. steal her oil wells? saudi arabia is the largest exporter of oil, and is a neighbor of kuwait. what did we do to her oil?

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