ks911, I think you weren't at collage (college) when they were teaching spelling!

Lets not forget that this is a 911 bb, and the people posting are interested in 911's in the main. You should expect some vitriol if you decide to talk about your kitcar in this forum.

About the topic in question, I think everyone would agree that Porsche stands for engineering excellence, purity of form and function and a beauty derived from purpose. The men who designed and built it are universally acknowledged as masters of their craft. They stand alongside great musicians, artists as writers in my estimation.

Appreciating heritage and tradition is about understanding that there are people who know more than you do, being humble in their presence and respecting and trying to understand the fruit of their labours.
Respecting Dr Porsches intelligence is something that you have failed to do with your conversion, and you are rightly ridiculed as a result.
The 911 has been the subject of continuous development for over quarter of a century, by some of the most respected automotive engineers in the business. It is probably the most thoroughly developed and sorted vehicle on the roads today. To sweep this work aside in some poorly thought out conversion which owes nothing to engineering and everything to hot-rod culture is I'm afraid butchery, to all who care about these things.
Spend a bit more time understanding why things are as they are, read some history books, and then if you think that Dr Porsche was misguided and can reason why, then suggest this to the 911bb. Until you understand why putting a V8 in a Porsche is bad idea you will be subjected to abuse and become arrogant and defensive as a means of protecting your ignorance.

Sixty years ago I believe the Nazi's had the same ideals in mind for humans that some of you have now for this German built car.

What kind of crap do you kids smoke these days? You think Dr. Porsche dreaming up this ultimate sports car with an air cooled six banger in the rear was some stroke of genious? Get serious! Serendipidy at best. You got a lotta goddamned nerve to ridicule someone for removing antiquated technology and replacing it with reliable cheap horsepower. Obviously you know nothing about hotrod engineering and have never driven or ridden in a well designed Porschev. You are doomed to live in your narrow minded little world forever adjusting your valves and getting blown off by every econobox out there. As I've said before, I wouldn't personally do this swap to my car, but I sure as hell won't ridicule someone else for daring to be different.

SUPERFREAKY: please note my previous post (this page) about PORSCHE being the one to abandon history and heritage with the "developed" H2O cooled 911 and the SUV...

And another thing…

I wondered how long it would be before someone mentioned the 'N' word. How depressing.

RarlyL8 tried to turn this into a class issue by saying that purists are wealthy snobs. Well, I would like to better him by taking V8 conversions to a new plane. I could argue that by sticking a 'good ol' small block Chevy into a teeny weeny german sportscar (which actually had nothing to do with the National Socialist Party) is a potent symbol of American Imperialism.

The act of V8 conversion is an act of domination by your way of thinking and cultural ideals over that of another people.

It signifies American attitudes the world over. Forcefeeding it's way of life, through economic dominance, onto a world that doesn't want its third rate offerings.

No substitute for cubic inches or caliber.

Yeeha.

Don't know about the rest of you guys but I'm more worried about similarity between Ron Simpson, and Rod Stuart...
Scary...

Anyway, I love this post... only true car nuts would get this deep into the very meaning of life over an engine swap.
I can just imagine what someone who stumbled into this thread would think of all of us if they were just trying to find a recipe for Dutch Toffee or something.

Christ guys, let it be.
I'd never put a SBC in my car, but we aren't talking about my car. People will do what they want.
oh well.
If any of you are planning on doing this swap, I'm interested in your old motor! http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif
Now I want everyone to stand back and breathe deaply for a second.



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Leland Pate

___79 SC Targa

Well guy's I have found that any car that someone changes from stock form somebody wont like it. I have a 57 chevy hardtop that has a blown & injected L88 427 making about 900hp with 21"wide mikey thompsons on the back.And I get all kinds of flack from the guy's that have stock or close to stock cars. They all say that I ruined it by chopping all up!! But IMO a stock 57 is rather boring. Mine has never been boring! But to each his own. I have 4 porsches including a turbo and have no plans to put any chevy parts on any of them. I also spend alot more time and money working on the porsche's than I do the chevy. But that's ok. I enjoy doing something different and a bit more of a challenge and that they are!!

I tried to get out, BUT THEY DRAW ME BACK IN!!! (quote from Godfather III)

SUPERFREAKY, - before you ever insult our shores again, I remind you that Tony Blair couldn’t fight his way out of a paper bag and if your bland food, funny talking, rainy, not-to-mention smelly isle ever needed CALIBER (the various definitions apply) you come begging our superiorly posed, strong-economy backed military to save your arse yet again. We are not so third rate when you get into trouble, are we? I served the USA Army for five years in the 101 as a TAG unit leader had have seen our charity cost us American lives. I disagree with your empirical views of the USA. However, should we change our minds, I hope too see the Stars and Stripes flying over Buckingham Palace first.

All this comes because your mad over an engine swap that doesn’t use anything British. You are further jealous over the fact that NOTHING from England has ever been coined “Ol Reliable” unless it were an oil leak or failing electicals.

German engineering coupled with reliable, non-leaking, affordable American power just seems to good to pass up. The thought that it will piss “you people” http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/wink.gif off makes it even sweeter.

Should you wish to discuss the disadvantages of living in Britain further, please email me or we can ICQ, but this forum is not for American bashing.

EDITED to make it readable for our fourm visitors under 18... MUHAHAHA


[This message has been edited by VIPRKLR (edited 02-26-2001).]

A flat 6 is antiquated horsepower?

1.Lets see, V-8 designed in the 20s by Ford
POrsche flat 6 in the early 60s designed from the flat 8 race engine in formula 1 cars- a race engine
2.A flat 6 offers a low center of gravity and more freedom in body styling with added aerodynamic possibilities along with superior dynamic balance

3.V-8 5 main bearings vs Porsche flat 6- 8

4.V-8 single overhead cam push rod engine vs double overhead cam for 911 F6

5.V-8 hard cornering oil starvation -solution deep oil pan, Porsche F6 dry sump enables lubrication at high G levels along with no oil pan needed provides lower center of gravity with less power loss due to crank shaft oil spashing

Just a sampling of how superior in design a Porsche 6 is over a v-8

Now which is better engineered,more contemporary and superior technology??

The Chevy

Hey Wiper, just having a laugh old chap, don't get your knickers in a twist.

…and the names sporty.

Actually the F-6 is considered a dual single overhead cam design. Which was high tech back then and is the major reason it sounds sooo good at high RPM.

As for the 928 V-8 swap to a 911... I thought the 928 was made for the mouse replacement? And the P-V-8 becomes a pretty paperweight. BTW this also applies to older Jaguars.

Lets keep in mind that a very well built mouse that can take 7-8K RPM blasts is not cheap to build. The bottom end is not as strong/balanced as a F-6 and therefore will take much work to beef up. Jees a good crank, alum block, forged rods, light pistons, machine work, alum ported heads, and all the other goodies add up quick. Plus your cam selection to get the top end will kill bottom end and probably leed to a very rough idle. A mouse that would reach the same caliber extended high RPM driving would probably cost $10-15K if done from scratch. Yah, you can get 300-350HP pretty easy out of the stock V-8, but you still will not be safe at high RPM past 6K.

Personally, I love the F-6 song at high RPMs which I do not think the V-8 could match. NASCAR engines do not sound good to me.

Shoot with a stock F-6 bottom end and some head, cam, and valve work for ~$4000 I can see 7500-8000 RPM blasts. I will keep my mouse in my truck and below 4K RPM.

If it were not for those greedy dismantlers Porsche owners would not have to seek out cheaper ways to keep thier p-cars on the road!

Peas,

------------------
Adrian Pillow
1979 911 SC
1966 VW Microbus
PCA - Peachstate Region

This thread has turned into quite the pissing match (more so that before). I'm Canadian so i'm neutral http://www.pelicanparts.com/ultimate/smile.gif .

I just wanted to pipe up and show some MORE support for the Porsche Flat 6. She is just far too beautiful sounding and looking (it really does look nicer with the lid open). Not to mention I must stick to mein Deutche roots. Us crouts make the best CARS (not only Porsche) in the world and I don't think that American Muscle will ever take a prominent place in the Porsche community.

As a side note, I have nothing but respect for Porsche even though they went to water. I think that this is only the begining of what they will one day turn the 911 into. Look at the first 911 aircooled cars and how far they have come. Its all a growing process and Porsche will again, one day, dominate like it did in the 80s.

Rarely, why do you continue to build that turbo engine when you seem to be so down with the chev conversion? Just asking.

Adam Roseneck

------------------
1978 911SC 3.0
roseneck@cyberbeach.net

Why bother with a Chevy engine? Put an electric engine in it a la Ed Begley Jr. I think that's what I'm going to do.

I know, I know, we all dread the Mr. PotatoHeadification of these classic cars via swapping engines and things, but we must be selfless in our quest for financial prudence and environmental kindness.

When I was a kid, I greatly anticipated the comic book ads. One featured a set of instructions for creating a hovercraft with a simple vacuum engine.
I think I may put a few vacuum engines in MY 911. One for each wheel.
And maybe a big petrol powered chevy engine for energizing my electric powerplant.

Then some really killer Cadillac seats or something for the front with back massagers and everything.
I mean why not right? Technology rules, and newer Caddy seats *with Massagers!* are better than the superannuated mechanical Porsche seats I have in there now.

And in furthering my quest to right the wrongs of father time, I'm going to put on Saturn doors. The kind that are ding resistant--that way my new 911 will always be gorgeous and ding free.

There must be tons of other things that can be done in the name of Updating-my-Old-Porsche, and these are merely a few for the grand Americanization of all things Great and Small.

------------------
Kurt B
1984 911 Carrera Cabriolet

[This message has been edited by Kurt B (edited 02-26-2001).]

Was having a beer with Scott from Renegade Hybrids yesterday....he attended and 914/911 fun run in the rain. He was driving a 914 with an 8 in it,,,,wicked fast. Fun to play with and gets a lot of looks. He went past me in a straight line and pulled well. I would like to think in the lighter car and all that hp, that he would be a spinner in the curves....did not have a chance to play much, mucho rain, Mulholland Canyon, long drops to the valley below and I was driving with a passenger.

But I like the sound of my flat six. As a matter of fact, I had to look hard to find a sport muffler that was quiet enough to not drown out the engine sound.

8s have their place, but next to my kids...I love my flat six best.

Some pics of the run, http://www.malmz.com/signatur/drives/pbr/
and http://www.nosubstitute.org/events/PBR25Feb01/default.asp


[This message has been edited by mikez (edited 02-26-2001).]

what's your ICQ nummer, eh? mine's 329697

Kurt - you’re a visionary!

You know, I've been thinking. Didn't Cadillac have a v-10 engine that ran on four cylinders in city and 10 on the highway.
Anyway, take the 911, and cut the top off. Make it a convertible. Take the back seat out and install a firewall just behind the driver seat. Install a grilled canopy from there to the back where the window used to be and walla - a C-GT without the expense.

Look at all the room you would have to work with. Who needs a back seat anyway. Not big enough for an adult, and us old folk don't have kids so it's not an issue. Just a thought.

Steve

Adam - the reason I'm building a 3.3T is because I want the sound of a high output Porsche in my 911. If this car were stricly a hotrod built for speed I'd have to bow to the V8. It just makes sense from an HP/dollar view.

You have to look at each car as an individual. An older pre-74 911 that is well kept and bone stock is a snapshot in time. The engine is its sole. The car is as it should be.

A wrecked '77 with a leaking 2.7L is a donor. This is a car begging to be modified in some way. It should be rescued and resurected in any form its creator wishes. Because of the economics of the V8 swap it stands to reason that no "good" cars will be used for the swap. Good cars aren't cheap.

I don't want all older Porsches to have V8s, but if you want to do this to an orphan you certainly should have that right. Obviously not everyone is going to like what you've done, but that is none of their business. It is your car and your money.

My reference to antiquated technology was a comparisom of 20+ year old CIS to a modern LS-1. If you swap in a modern Porsche 3.6L you have done the same thing - updated. You get that sweet P-sound but not as much power. As for high RPMs, who needs that? My SC redlines at less than 6500. Hell I run my Chevy S10 up to 6 grand all the time. That motor cost me less than a set of Webers to build.