"Lifetime Fluids" my arrrr$$$e :)

[LEAKYSEALS951]

I just finally got up the courage to change the transmission oil in my wife's 2015 v60 volvo.

approx 50,000 miles.

It, of course, is a "lifetime" fluid which never needs to be changed. I figured it might look a little amber, hell, it could only get soooo gnarly.

Behold...... I've dropped turds prettier than this. It's no wonder all the 8-9 thousand speed newfangled no fluid needed ipod compatible trannys are going bad. The computers these days are programmed to compensate for bad oil- but burnt oil, is burnt oil. It smells every so slightly fragrantly as such.

Oh well... now to see if the car still works!

[cabmandone]

By "lifetime" they mean the lifetime of the fluid... not the car. OR they mean the lifetime of the car since not replacing the fluid will affect the lifetime of the car in general!

I had a dealer tell me the trans had lifetime fluid in it. I told them "yeah... and at 100K its lifetime is up! Let's change it.

[dad911]

Friend had a van with lifetime engine oil and special expensive filters, back in the 70's. Valves were chattering like crazy.... I kept telling him to dump the lifetime, but since his father did it, he didn't want to deal with dad.

Finally dumped it, loaded with contaminates, very thin, probably gas blowby... noise went away.

[widebody911]

By "lifetime" they mean lifetime of the warranty. By extending the service intervals, they can claim a lower cost-of-ownership.

[Por_sha911]

If you didn't replace it with Volvo fluid, you may have just voided the warranty. I used to sell Volvo in the late 80's and they would deny repair claims if you used anything but their parts and fluids.

[faverymi]

Lifetime is whatever for service intervals for the first owner.

Usually the first 3 years of a lease. (don't forget "Maintenance included")

The problems come down the road for succeeding owner. But now is their problem and not the manufacturer. Out of warranty Sorry!!!

[Evans, Marv]

I changed the fluid in my wife's Altima using the fluid the warrantee called for. It's been a while & I don't remember the reason, but only half of the fluid could be changed at a time. I learned the stealership changed half the fluid and called it good. I did a fluid change the following weekend to get maybe 90% new fluid in it. Same thing for my F350. I took it in for a coolant change & was told they only changed out four of the eight gallons and called it a coolant change. I took it to an indi place and told them to change out all eight gallons. It's strange thinking to call half a change a whole change.

[M.D. Holloway]

Ya know, just because it smells rank, is 'dirty', and you think it isn't any good, think again. The oil is doing its job. It might be time to change or it may be fine believe it or not. I have seen far worse looking oil and it is fine in a system. I would like to understand the degree of oxidation, if there was a significant amountg of wear metals, and if the viscosity was still in spec. I would be willing to bet it was still fine to be in the box.

When you change fluid sometimes you introduce more bad then good.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by LEAKYSEALS951

The computers these days are programmed to compensate for bad oil- but burnt oil, is burnt oil. It smells every so slightly fragrantly as such.

You have an issue.

Just changed oil in pal's 2004 S60. Was not burnt at 190k. Played hell figuring out what fluid to buy but settled on a case of Mobil 3309 thru Amazon post research. 12 Quarts. Maybe liters.

Have performed one cycle. Two more needed to get as close to clean as possible.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

When you change fluid sometimes you introduce more bad then good.

I would argue at 50k not so.

[asphaltgambler]

Originally Posted by widebody911

By "lifetime" they mean lifetime of the warranty. By extending the service intervals, they can claim a lower cost-of-ownership.

^^^^This^^^^^

But - if you read the owners manual carefully, vehicles undergoing " Extreme" conditions, the 'schedule' is advanced considerably. IE: Those fluids pegged at 100K - or lifetime are under average driving conditions. Extreme conditions may dictate half that.
'
Really more to the point, I've never seen 'damage' done when performing services ahead, sometimes waaaay ahead of what the manufacturer claims is safe.

[CurtEgerer]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

Ya know, just because it smells rank, is 'dirty', and you think it isn't any good, think again. The oil is doing its job. It might be time to change or it may be fine believe it or not. I have seen far worse looking oil and it is fine in a system. I would like to understand the degree of oxidation, if there was a significant amountg of wear metals, and if the viscosity was still in spec. I would be willing to bet it was still fine to be in the box.

When you change fluid sometimes you introduce more bad then good.

I took one of my cars in a few years back to a transmission shop to change the 'lifetime' fluid, just because I thought it was probably a good thing to do at 75,000. The owner of the shop who has been doing transmissions for 35+ years told me the exact same thing. So I didn't change it and never had a problem. Your mileage may vary ....

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by faverymi

Lifetime is whatever for service intervals for the first owner.

Usually the first 3 years of a lease. (don't forget "Maintenance included")

The problems come down the road for succeeding owner. But now is their problem and not the manufacturer. Out of warranty Sorry!!!

Exactly! Funny how the fluid suddenly became "lifetime" but the actual fluid did not change. So overnight it suddenly was good forever? After the warranty is over you are on your own, best to use your best judgement instead of paying attention to the OEM.

[LEAKYSEALS951]

Thanks all...

Totally with you MD on the potential of "causing more bad than good" idea. Infact- that's why I've held off until today. You guys are light years ahead of me in oil knowledge. Finally, I bit the bullet. I mean, perhaps it could go to 100k, but then at some point... it really would need to be changed.

For my 2005 xc70 I use the about $70 of 3309. For my wife's car, $210 worth of volvo's finest rebranded "whatever it is" for her Aisin TF-80SC.

Today was also a moment of courage on my xc70 as I worked up the courage to install an external transmission filter. The xc70 is on it's fifth change and will trip 200,000 by christmas. For these "new" volvo's, that seems to be an accomplishment (at least for me).

We live on a mountain, and the engine goes through a lot of shifting on inclines, and she drives pretty hard, where as I am perfect and lightfooted like a butterfly.

I figured I voided the warranty just by changing the oil as an uncertified volvo dealer.

I don't know what gives. hers is a 6 speed, and is probably still shifting right now in the driveway even though I turned it off 30 minutes ago. Mine is just five. Hers has a cooler thermostat and a much smaller external oil cooler, about the size of a deck of cards. I think my 2005 has a larger cooler in the radiator shroud. It has no thermostat I am aware of.

FWIW- we drove out to dinner tonight and she commented that things had gotten significantly better after the change. I sort of believe her, but am torn between an actual improvement and being biased in knowing I just changed it.

Who knows. At any rate- the car still works, and seems to work a "bit" better. My 915 was also shifting well yesterday after driving it for several hours in a "spirited" manner.

So there you go!

[tcar]

Originally Posted by Evans, Marv

I did a fluid change the following weekend to get maybe 90% new fluid in it. .

You changed a lot less than 90%... maybe 2/3 of the fluid.
(Half the fluid you changed the second time was 'new' fluid from the first change.)

Diminishing returns, you'd need a 2-3 more changes to even approach 90%.

And you can never change all of it, doing half at a time.

But effectively, it's much better.

[craigster59]

Originally Posted by M.D. Holloway

Ya know, just because it smells rank, is 'dirty', and you think it isn't any good, think again. The oil is doing its job. It might be time to change or it may be fine believe it or not. I have seen far worse looking oil and it is fine in a system. I would like to understand the degree of oxidation, if there was a significant amountg of wear metals, and if the viscosity was still in spec. I would be willing to bet it was still fine to be in the box.

When you change fluid sometimes you introduce more bad then good.

I've read Lubey's book and he knows what he speaks of...

[Tobra]

lifetime transmission fluid, bah, humbug

[T77911S]

Mercedes tried the lifetime fluid also. not good. thing is with the MB is if you went a long time without changing then had it FLUSHED, it would kill the tranny about 10k miles later.
if it was flushed regularly at low mile intervals you were ok.

when I got my MB and not knowing the history I just drain it, replace the filter and put back it new

[greglepore]

The MB issue had as much to do with a critical weak bearing in the trans (assuming we're talking 722.6) that would fail. Some folks recommended not draining the t/c. Personally, I've not had the issue. The other MB trans issue is that mid 90's cars had the habit of wicking fluid into the trans ECM. Preventable with a connector change every 60k or so.

No such thing as lifetime lube. Period. The largest reason is that a trans can shed a fair amount of metal and still be fine...for a while. If you get the metal out you extend the life of the trans. There's no way to know you need to change the fluid without changing the fluid.

[sc_rufctr]

My 400SE W140, M-B recommends a transmission oil change every 30,000 miles. (48,280 km)
There is no recommendation on the differential oil which I find surprising but I plan to change it every second transmission oil change.

And because I have an early car it has a dipstick. The later W140s had a cap with a lock tab and no dipstick.
.... M-B did this to stop owners introducing dirt and lint into the transmission.