What good is legalizing weed if you can't use it?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Charles Freeborn

...As for legalization creating addicts, that's utter rubbish. Addicts will always be addicts. Access has never been the problem for them - of anything they choose to ingest. I live in OR. There are no more stoners on the streets than before. The only difference is us residents are collecting the tax revenues rather than the cartels collecting the profits.

I would have to disagree with this part. Folks cannot become addicted to a substance that they have no contact with. A lot most folks have sampled a beer (because it was legal and readily available) than marijuana. Similarly, people who would not hesitate to try a legal product would be more likely to avoid an illegal one that is detectible for a long period and might cause jail...or at least unemployment. Legalization and mass marketing denote societal approval/encouragement.

[Charles Freeborn]

Yeah, right .... there were no new alcohol users created during prohibition....un huh....
My father was an alcoholic (dead at 57), I lived through the 80's and 90's in SanFrancisco... I've seen my share and then some of all form of substance use and abuse. Access is and has never been the problem for anything. A person has curiosity and interest or not.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by fintstone

I would have to disagree with this part. Folks cannot become addicted to a substance that they have no contact with. A lot most folks have sampled a beer (because it was legal and readily available) than marijuana. Similarly, people who would not hesitate to try a legal product would be more likely to avoid an illegal one that is detectible for a long period and might cause jail...or at least unemployment. Legalization and mass marketing denote societal approval/encouragement.

I would strongly disagree with this one. Growing up in the 1990s, I had far easier access to pot than I had to alcohol or tobacco as a teen. Exponentially easier, because there were many more potential sources. Much easier to hit up a small scale drug dealer in high school than find an adult or someone with a fake ID to buy booze or cigarettes. Which sucked, because I just wanted beer.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Charles Freeborn

Yeah, right .... there were no new alcohol users created during prohibition....un huh....
My father was an alcoholic (dead at 57), I lived through the 80's and 90's in SanFrancisco... I've seen my share and then some of all form of substance use and abuse. Access is and has never been the problem for anything. A person has curiosity and interest or not.

Access is always a factor...but enforcement is also a factor. According to historians, prohibition drastically reduced consumption:

...Though popular opinion believes that Prohibition failed, it succeeded in cutting overall alcohol consumption in half during the 1920s, and consumption remained below pre-Prohibition levels until the 1940s,[1] suggesting that Prohibition did socialize a significant proportion of the population in temperate habits, at least temporarily. Some researchers contend that its political failure is attributable more to a changing historical context than to characteristics of the law itself.[2]...

"...It is not clear whether Prohibition reduced per-capita consumption of alcohol. Some historians claim that alcohol consumption in the United States did not exceed pre-Prohibition levels until the 1960s;[70] others claim that alcohol consumption reached the pre-Prohibition levels several years after its enactment, and have continued to rise.[71] Cirrhosis of the liver, normally a result of alcoholism, dropped nearly two thirds during Prohibition.[72][73] In the decades after Prohibition, Americans shed any stigma they might have had against alcohol consumption. According to a Gallup Poll survey conducted almost every year since 1939, some two-thirds of American adults age 18 and older drink alcohol.[74]"
"Alcohol and Temperance in Modern History: An International ..., Volume 1
By Jack S. Blocker, David M. Fahey, Ian R. Tyrrell

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I would strongly disagree with this one. Growing up in the 1990s, I had far easier access to pot than I had to alcohol or tobacco as a teen. Exponentially easier, because there were many more potential sources. Much easier to hit up a small scale drug dealer in high school than find an adult or someone with a fake ID to buy booze or cigarettes. Which sucked, because I just wanted beer.

Marijuana is the perfect drug to sell to kids...as it is relatively small, lightweight and odorless until used. It can be hidden on one's body very easily without "printing".While it may have been readily available to you...I would assume that if they were the case, folks thought you to be cool and would not likely "narc" on them. Less "cool" folks likely did not have the same opportunities (but would if use were legal and more widespread). Lets take your current situation where it is illegal...if you asked most coworkers for a joint, would you be able to get one? What if it were legal? Would it be easier attainable?

[Ayles]

Odorless until used? Please stop talking. You have zero credibility.

[gordner]

Any one anywhere can find weed in about 2 minutes on Craigslist Fint. And odorless? Really showing your lack of knowledge there.

[gordner]

As for access to kids, in my entire youth pre 19, it was orders of magnitude easier to score weed, or any other illicit drug, than alcohol. Legalization can only lead to better control of access to kids if that is a legitimate concern you have.
weed is bulky compared to any other drug fint, smells waaaaaay more. Name any drug, it fits your "perfect to sell to kids" bs better.

[jwasbury]

Some other effects of Prohibition:

created the environment for organized crime to flourish

moved consumption habits to more potent forms of alcohol (hard liquor vs. beer and wine) - because it was more efficient to smuggle, easier to get.

Same thing happened with opiates...couple hundred years ago unrefined forms were readily available. Once criminalized, smugglers and black market took over and naturally gravitated towards more potent, refined forms of the drugs to maximize profits.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Ayles

Odorless until used? Please stop talking. You have zero credibility.

Pretty much does if you keep in in a ziplock. Do you really think kids wear it in their hair? If I have zero credibility...where does that leave you?

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by gordner

Any one anywhere can find weed in about 2 minutes on Craigslist Fint. And odorless? Really showing your lack of knowledge there.

LOL. No, I think you are showing your lack of knowledge. Try buying some (or selling) off marijuana craigslist in most communities (where it is illegal) per the state/city.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

Some other effects of Prohibition:

created the environment for organized crime to flourish

moved consumption habits to more potent forms of alcohol (hard liquor vs. beer and wine) - because it was more efficient to smuggle, easier to get.

Same thing happened with opiates...couple hundred years ago unrefined forms were readily available. Once criminalized, smugglers and black market took over and naturally gravitated towards more potent, refined forms of the drugs to maximize profits.

Seems just the opposite for marijuana. Potency is way up as are distribution methods (edibles, vaping, etc.). Black markets are still flourishing. Big Marijuana and big pharma are little different than organized crime.

[Ayles]

Zip lock bags do not contain the aroma. Your kids probably had a fun time pulling one over on their old man.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by gordner

As for access to kids, in my entire youth pre 19, it was orders of magnitude easier to score weed, or any other illicit drug, than alcohol. Legalization can only lead to better control of access to kids if that is a legitimate concern you have.
weed is bulky compared to any other drug fint, smells waaaaaay more. Name any drug, it fits your "perfect to sell to kids" bs better.

How does legalization make it easier to control access? Any adult can buy it and resell or give to kids without every having to break any law to get their supply. Parental (legal) purchases can make it much more available to children/teens.

Try putting a sandwich bag of marijuana (or an edible that looks like candy) in your pocket and a six pack in the other. Tell me which is more bulky.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by Ayles

Zip lock bags do not contain the aroma. Your kids probably had a fun time pulling one over on their old man.

It did when I was a teen...maybe your nose is just more sensitized to the odor than mine.

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Seems just the opposite for marijuana. Potency is way up as are distribution methods (edibles, vaping, etc.). Black markets are still flourishing. Big Marijuana and big pharma are little different than organized crime.

So you believe potency of MJ has increased only since U.S. states started legalizing/decriminalizing? MJ has been entirely illegal in the USA for much, much longer than it has "enjoyed" pockets of legality here and I can assure you that potency has been increasing steadily thanks to more controlled and hi-tech cultivation techniques. Perhaps these techniques would have developed less or more slowly if people were allowed to just plant some seeds in their backyard garden? .

Alcohol and prescription narcotics are a much bigger issue than MJ. MJ is not addictive physiologically like alcohol and opiates. I'm not saying it can't cause problems, just pointing out that you should be more concerned about big pharma and big alcohol than you should be about MJ.

[onewhippedpuppy]

Originally Posted by fintstone

Marijuana is the perfect drug to sell to kids...as it is relatively small, lightweight and odorless until used. It can be hidden on one's body very easily without "printing".While it may have been readily available to you...I would assume that if they were the case, folks thought you to be cool and would not likely "narc" on them. Less "cool" folks likely did not have the same opportunities (but would if use were legal and more widespread). Lets take your current situation where it is illegal...if you asked most coworkers for a joint, would you be able to get one? What if it were legal? Would it be easier attainable?

When I was in high school, everybody knew who to ask for pot. Not just me because I was so cool. From what I hear about high school today, it's just as easy. And today, despite being a working professional, I'm fairly certain I could find somebody within about 5 minutes.

I don't have a dog in this fight, because it's not my thing. But most of what you are posting reads like it came out of a Mcgruff the Crime Dog pamphlet that isn't bounded in any sort of reality. Prohibition, btw, was an epic failure by just about every measure. It didn't cut drinking, it simply pushed it underground.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

So you believe potency of MJ has increased only since U.S. states started legalizing/decriminalizing? MJ has been entirely illegal in the USA for much, much longer than it has "enjoyed" pockets of legality here and I can assure you that potency has been increasing steadily thanks to more controlled and hi-tech cultivation techniques. Perhaps these techniques would have developed less or more slowly if people were allowed to just plant some seeds in their backyard garden? .

Alcohol and prescription narcotics are a much bigger issue than MJ. MJ is not addictive physiologically like alcohol and opiates. I'm not saying it can't cause problems, just pointing out that you should be more concerned about big pharma and big alcohol than you should be about MJ.

Yes. I think the current legal marijuana is much more potent than most of the black market marijuana before legalization.

Alcohol and prescription drugs have nothing to do with legalizing marijuana. If you have the measles and chickenpox, intentionally adding herpes does not seem like a reasonable solution to the other two problems.

[Khal]

Originally Posted by Ayles

Odorless until used? Please stop talking. You have zero credibility.

I gotta side with the pathological liar here. There are so many weed products you won't believe it. How about some 420 hotsauce? Get high with nachos. Or how about some forbidden valley ranch? Popcorn, potroot beer? Or the gummy worms and rings. You can't smell anything from those products (so I've read online) But you'll get pretty high and won't smell of pot and nobody will even be able to tell the person is baked if they do this alot and act the same.

But fint is wrong about how potent it is sure in the past it was 1% and the average weed today is around 12%. Probably the highest THC around in pot is around 26% in the flowers. You can only get so high smoking that stuff and you can't OD and die. You can eat a ton of weed cookies and get too high but all that will happen is you might have a panic attack or fall asleep.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

When I was in high school, everybody knew who to ask for pot. Not just me because I was so cool. From what I hear about high school today, it's just as easy. And today, despite being a working professional, I'm fairly certain I could find somebody within about 5 minutes.

I don't have a dog in this fight, because it's not my thing. But most of what you are posting reads like it came out of a Mcgruff the Crime Dog pamphlet that isn't bounded in any sort of reality. Prohibition, btw, was an epic failure by just about every measure. It didn't cut drinking, it simply pushed it underground.

You may have know whom to ask...but if they thought you might be a "narc" you would not have succeeded in making the purchase.

I could not find someone in a week. I could not buy marijuana in my neighborhood or at work if my life depended on it.

No. History shows us that prohibition did reduce drinking and it was corroborated by incidence of liver disease which is similar regardless if the alcohol consumed is legal or not.