That Saigon street execution photo...

[pwd72s]

Originally Posted by Alansglide

Sorry for my above post guys. I get a little hot under the collar when it comes to that war.

Again sorry for the rant.

No apology needed as far as I'm concerned. You were there. Carries a lot of weight with me.

[look 171]

Originally Posted by Alansglide

Sorry for my above post guys. I get a little hot under the collar when it comes to that war. I've deleted part of my post above.

Again sorry for the rant.

No please do tell. I was too young when that was happenning. Most people I know don't want to talk about it PC or not, I for one would like to hear about it. Hope this doesn't end up in PARF.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by motion

So, its OK to murder people in broad daylight, in front of the media, without any due process? I understand that it was in a time of war, however, the rules still apply. Yes, I know that they are frequently ignored.

What planet do you live on?

[look 171]

Originally Posted by motion

So, its OK to murder people in broad daylight, in front of the media, without any due process? I understand that it was in a time of war, however, the rules still apply. Yes, I know that they are frequently ignored.

No, its not OK to murder anyone, day or night, period. In time of war, the though process is completely different. Maybe killing him may save hundreds or thousands of lives in the days to come? They general may see it as doing the people of S Viet Nam a lot of good.

[look 171]

Don't watch if you have weak stomach

Very interesting view of what happened

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGrsw6m9UOY

[Holger]

Ummmm, many strange things going on between that vid and the photo to be honest.
In the vid the shooter does not stretch the arm like on the photo, also, the "victim" falls at the same rate as the arm lowers. Also, of course, a person is going through the picture exactly (of course) when the shot fires.
The second picture in this thread, after the shot, shows the person on the ground in a position, that cannot be seen in the vid, even if the photo is taken directly after the shot.
For me, photo and vid does not show the same "event"?

[KFC911]

Originally Posted by Alansglide

Sorry for my above post guys. I get a little hot under the collar when it comes to that war. I've deleted part of my post above.

Again sorry for the rant.

Didn''t see your original post....no apologies necessary imo....actually wish I I had. Did you by chance watch the Burns' documentary? We had a couple of threads here (one in PARF), some denouncing it as liberal spin....but I thought it presented both pro/anti-war perspectives pretty fairly....but I dunno. I understand vets who don't need to rewatch the hell they lived back then, but if you did watch, what was your take...if you'd like to share it?

...and thank you.

[sc_rufctr]

Originally Posted by tabs

What planet do you live on?

Earth like the rest of us!

What disturbs me is the countless number of people who have been butchered for no good reason.

The 11,000,000 people who died in Nazi extermination camps is a staggering statistic. Most people when asked say 6,000,000!

-----

"Just" a movie but do you remember this scene from saving Private Ryan?

They were Czech soldiers trying to surrender & most likely were conscripted into the German Army and forced to fight.

[cairns]

So, its OK to murder people in broad daylight, in front of the media, without any due process? I understand that it was in a time of war, however, the rules still apply. Yes, I know that they are frequently ignored.

Yes. You should learn the difference between war and murder. To paraphrase Eastwood rules ain't got nothing to do with it.

BTW we won the Tet offensive. But the media never told you that.

[sc_rufctr]

BTW The US won every major military battle in Vietnam.

[flatbutt]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

Personally, I see a man with a gun, with a very nonchalant, relaxed look on his face. Like he'd done this sort of stuff countless times. like he de-humanized the recipient of the bullet.

A good friend of mine was SF in VN. He rarely spoke of his time there. On only one occasion he said straight out " you don't kill with anger and passion, not if you want to survive it all yourself. You kill cold and detached". Scary stuff.

[fintstone]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

BTW The US won every major military battle in Vietnam.

With help from our fine Australian allies...ROK, Thailand, New Zealand, etc.. We also had a bunch of folks from Canada join our military (although not the Govt). A lot of the RVN troops fought their arses off too...and died valiantly (although some just rolled over).

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by motion

So, its OK to murder people in broad daylight, in front of the media, without any due process? I understand that it was in a time of war, however, the rules still apply. Yes, I know that they are frequently ignored.

Rules of war were followed.

Summary execution of unlawful combatants is permitted under Geneva convention.

Francs-tireurs.

[GH85Carrera]

Originally Posted by 450knotOffice

So...
let me play Devil's advocate here...

WHO, exactly, accused this guy of the horrific crimes he was executed for?

BOTH sides of that, and every, war created narratives to justify their actions of atrocity.

Personally, I see a man with a gun, with a very nonchalant, relaxed look on his face. Like he'd done this sort of stuff countless times. like he de-humanized the recipient of the bullet.

Ya know the Nazis did the same thing.

I'd be appalled that any man who could do this would be running a day to day business.

How's he any different than the NAZI's who escaped to Argentina and led "normal" lives?

The guy with the bullet in his head was caught in the act of murdering women and children of the South Vietnamese officers family. In the middle of a war, if you came home and found someone killing your family would you just arrest them and let them possibly escape of be traded in a prisoner swap or something you have no control over. I know I would kill them on the spot.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by cairns

Yes. You should learn the difference between war and murder. To paraphrase Eastwood rules ain't got nothing to do with it.

BTW we won the Tet offensive. But the media never told you that.

Eastwood said "Deserves got nothing to do with it."

[tabs]

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr

Earth like the rest of us!

What disturbs me is the countless number of people who have been butchered for no good reason.

The 11,000,000 people who died in Nazi extermination camps is a staggering statistic. Most people when asked say 6,000,000!

-----

"Just" a movie but do you remember this scene from saving Private Ryan?

They were Czech soldiers trying to surrender & most likely were conscripted into the German Army and forced to fight.

Where do you get 11m? John Toland said 4.8m. Eichman was always complaining that he couldn't fill up the trains in France.

[p911dad]

That photo is burned into the minds of many of us that lived in that time. As horrible an image that it is, I believe you need to place it in the context of those times. For instance, as the Viet Cong and N. Viet army overran the country in the Tet Offensive, the VC and NVA summarily murdered thousands of local officials, professors, merchants and others. No photos of that atrocity that I ever saw. Once a real war gets going there are no limits on what can and does happen. That photo and the little girl running from the napalm attack bring it back to me like it was yesterday.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by Holger

Ummmm, many strange things going on between that vid and the photo to be honest.
In the vid the shooter does not stretch the arm like on the photo, also, the "victim" falls at the same rate as the arm lowers. Also, of course, a person is going through the picture exactly (of course) when the shot fires.
The second picture in this thread, after the shot, shows the person on the ground in a position, that cannot be seen in the vid, even if the photo is taken directly after the shot.
For me, photo and vid does not show the same "event"?

There is nothing strange going on at all.

That 60's camera is likely only 16-18 fps, standard for the time.

Footage is not taken from the same vantage point.

Audio is noticeably out of sync, behind, it affects our perception of what we are seeing.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by tabs

Where do you get 11m? John Toland said 4.8m. Eichman was always complaining that he couldn't fill up the trains in France.

Up to 6 million Jews.

7 million soviets, some included in the 6 million number.

Poles, gypsys, the disabled and mentally ill, gays, convicts.

All systematically murdered.

The real number is estimated to be north of 15 million.

[sc_rufctr]

Like all things in war 11,000,000 is an estimate. There's no way to know for sure.

The Jews have a near complete list of the 6,000,000 who died.

Regardless even 1,000,000 is hard to believe. That's extermination on an industrial scale.
How many people would have to be involved to achieve something as diabolical as this?

And Stalin makes Hitler & the Nazis look like rank amateurs. More than 25,000,000!

How did they live with themselves knowing they were responsible for so many deaths?
Political justification taken to the extreme!