Pelican Parts Forums

Pelican Parts Forums (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/)
-   Off Topic Discussions (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/)
-   -   That Saigon street execution photo... (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/off-topic-discussions/986052-saigon-street-execution-photo.html)

flipper35 01-31-2018 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRM (Post 9907966)
Paul, you're speaking a language I know but thought I had forgotten. Yep, the photog probably was using Tri X 400 ASA black and white film pushed to 1600 ASA developed in Kodak's legendary D-76 bath. Maybe he used F-5 paper for max contrast. The lack of a flame at the end of the barrel makes the photo even more eerie.

The only evidence a shot is fired is the matting of the hair. It just looks odd. Maybe it was a squib round or something.

I don't think film speed or shutter speed has anything to do with it. The area in the background all looks the same.

svandamme 01-31-2018 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motion (Post 9907281)
So, its OK to murder people in broad daylight, in front of the media, without any due process? I understand that it was in a time of war, however, the rules still apply. Yes, I know that they are frequently ignored.

The rules were not ignored.
They simply do not apply to the guy getting shot in that picture.

He's the one that is out of Uniform, and who executed the family of a South Vienamese Officer who refused his orders. He used a knife to kill his wife, her elderly mother, his children and a whole bunch of others.

The protection provided by the Geneva Protocols do no extend to guerilla's that fight irregular, out of uniform and who murder civilians.
They do nto cover this "franc tireur" who under those rules in time of war was an illegal combatant, a spy, a saboteur and above a cold blooded murderer of civilians.

The man who shot him, saw those things happening to that officer under his command.

Even the photographer testified in his defence and he was fully aquitted of any wrong doing.

svandamme 01-31-2018 02:03 PM

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/BGrsw6m9UOY" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

yellowperil 01-31-2018 02:16 PM

What I recall from back then.
 
I remember seeing the video at the time, on CBS or one other of the US news channels.
It was a shock to watch, it was repeated many times but I only looked once. It seemed brutal and what struck me the most and what I recall the most was the amount of blood spurting out of this victim's head as he fell to the ground.
I never knew the details, and didn't need or wanted to know. For sure it was and remains the most horrific thing I've ever watched.

sammyg2 01-31-2018 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alansglide (Post 9907360)
Sorry for my above post guys. I get a little hot under the collar when it comes to that war. I've deleted part of my post above.

Again sorry for the rant.

Never apologize for telling the truth, you've earned that right.

BeyGon 01-31-2018 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowperil (Post 9908309)
I remember seeing the video at the time, on CBS or one other of the US news channels.
It was a shock to watch, it was repeated many times but I only looked once. It seemed brutal and what struck me the most and what I recall the most was the amount of blood spurting out of this victam's head as he fell to the ground.
I never knew the details, and didn't need or wanted to know. For sure it was and remains the most horrific thing I've ever watched.

he didn't deserve to be treated that well

Bob Kontak 01-31-2018 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeyGon (Post 9908377)
he didn't deserve to be treated that well

Pop goes the weasel was a gift.

wdfifteen 01-31-2018 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by motion (Post 9907281)
So, its OK to murder people in broad daylight, in front of the media, without any due process? I understand that it was in a time of war, however, the rules still apply. Yes, I know that they are frequently ignored.

It's also OK to imprison humans indefinitely, broad daylight and dark of night, year after year, without due process. We do it at Guantanamo Bay.

wdfifteen 01-31-2018 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc_rufctr (Post 9907490)
What disturbs me is the countless number of people who have been butchered for no good reason.

The reason is politics. Politics is a blood sport. It is only polite up to a point, then it is contentious but bloodless, then all he ll breaks loose.

wdfifteen 01-31-2018 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afterburn 549 (Post 9908555)
Whattofteen
Gitmo is for Military that has committed atrocities egg head.
Herandous war crimes, not for civilians stealing 50 bucks

You obviously don't understand the concept of due process of common law.

BeyGon 01-31-2018 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 9908548)
It's also OK to imprison humans indefinitely, broad daylight and dark of night, year after year, without due process. We do it at Guantanamo Bay.

so shoot them and get it over with, they shouldn't leave the battlefield

Bob Kontak 01-31-2018 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afterburn 549 (Post 9908602)
You prove you are an idiot over and over .

Nah. It's horrifying.

However, it's unfair to judge at first blush. The dude needed to be capped.

I don't think due process applies to this situation. It IS the battlefield.

wdfifteen 01-31-2018 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by afterburn 549 (Post 9908602)
You prove you are an idiot over and over .
It is a PRISON camp FOOL.
Not a JAIL for felons.
They do not get constitutional laws applied as war criminals.
THAT is the whole freeking idea behind Gitmo.
How stupid can you remain?

This Is PPOT, not PARF. In keeping with the purpose of PPOT I won't call you names or insult you.
War criminals are people who have been convicted of war crimes. Even the Nazi criminals of WWII were given trials within a reasonable period of time. The people in Gitmo are suspected of war crimes. They are being imprisoned indefinitely - maybe for the rest of their lives - because they are suspects. I'm all for punishing criminals. It's un-American to punish people suspected of crimes.

Bob Kontak 01-31-2018 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 9908630)
This Is PPOT, not PARF. ..............It's un-American to punish people suspected of crimes.

Agree. Need to chill on the name calling comments.

However, this was South Vietnam. Not a Rodney King/pissed off black dude, throwing a brick into a cracker's head in LA.

I got no argument with your viewpoint, just have done a lot of reading and vid watching on this situation because of how appalling it was. I was shaken.

It was a DIFFERENT place. Not a different time. A different place.

john70t 01-31-2018 05:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 9908630)
Even the Nazi criminals of WWII were given trials within a reasonable period of time.

Just to argue a minor point as an aside...
Everyone involved: from lower to mid-level to upper Nazi party was pretty much automatically killed during the war process.
And today even conscripted ninety year old grandmothers are still being put on trial.
(Whether kidnapped internationally or just assassinated through various means.)
Let's not talk about Isreal's leading role in genetic scientific research or expelling citizens.
Then the upper crust Nazi echelon were given an international trial.
I believe there were special legal rules applied. Ones where evidence did not need to proven to be accepted into record as factual.


Right or wrong is not the point of my argument.
It is whether international rules and laws have consistently always been applied...
I say no.

Bob Kontak 01-31-2018 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john70t (Post 9908663)
It is whether international rules and laws have consistently always been applied...
I say no.

Well I say prolly no as well. Goering partied with Americans before incarceration.

The subject issue was dealt with in real time.

Effectively

God bless expediency.

tevake 01-31-2018 06:02 PM

Quick to judgment there Afterburn, as regards Gitmo detainees and with out clear facts.

In the chaotic factional atmosphere in The Middle East at the time, members of supposedly friendly factions could have played us to eliminate an opponent simply by reporting them as terrorist. Possibly Resulting in open ended detainment and no recourse, without due process.

And now you are so sure of the situation that you are ready condem them to immediate execution. Still without trial or assured ness of the circumstances of their imprisonment.

Correction, I see now that it's Dean that thinks they should have been exicuted in the battlefield. It's my understanding that some were not battlefield captures.

wdfifteen 01-31-2018 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by john70t (Post 9908663)
Just to argue a minor point as an aside...
Everyone involved: from lower to mid-level to upper Nazi party was pretty much automatically killed during the war process.
And today even conscripted ninety year old grandmothers are still being put on trial.
(Whether kidnapped internationally or just assassinated through various means.)
Let's not talk about Isreal's leading role in genetic scientific research or expelling citizens.
Then the upper crust Nazi echelon were given an international trial.
I believe there were special legal rules applied. Ones where evidence did not need to proven to be accepted into record as factual.


Right or wrong is not the point of my argument.
It is whether international rules and laws have consistently always been applied...
I say no.

You are correct, rules, such as they are, have not been applied. My question is whether it is morally right to execute prisoners (as in the Saigon photo) or indefinitely imprison them (as in Gitmo).
Is it now acceptable to execute our enemies when they pose no immediate threat to us? In WWII that was a crime - we rounded up and cared for tens of thousands of enemy combatants without killing them. By the time Viet Nam came along, it was apparently OK with some Americans to handcuff and then shoot the enemy in the head. Now, with Gitmo, many Americans think it is OK to capture and imprison people who are presumed to be the enemy for the rest of their lives without any trial at all.
Is that really the American way of doing things?

pwd72s 01-31-2018 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wdfifteen (Post 9908548)
It's also OK to imprison humans indefinitely, broad daylight and dark of night, year after year, without due process. We do it at Guantanamo Bay.

Did we release German of Japanese POW's before the war was over?

john70t 01-31-2018 06:24 PM

That is a fair question WD, considering we have alleged ourselves to a higher ground.


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 02:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2025 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Pelican Parts Website


DTO Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.