"They thought about surrender" = Revisionism
Because they didn't.

Even if Hanoi would have surrendered, the country would not have been at peace , the jungle still would have been there..
Cambodia still would have been there.Guerilla tactics still would have worked. the NVA would have been gone, and there would have bee a lot more VC instead.

Smiling at every American during the day, but plotting to kill him at night.

Like the Paris Peace accord they might have waited for the US troops to reduce in numbers and while they regrouped.


Westmoorland knew damn well that his war of attrition was going to turn south in his homefront if the US population and politicians did not believe his concept of winning.
That's why he omitted the real information about VC troop strength in his reports to the Homefront.
CBS published that, he tried to sue em, and in the end settled for an apology because he knew he would not win his lawsuit.. Because his subordinates would testify that he DID do that.

Westmooreland called Giap a butcher for his lack of care over how many casualties he ran.
But Westmooreland showed great lack of care for human life himself. He was not that much better then Giap was in the grand scheme of things.
He just wanted to win at the expense of many who ended up dead or scarred for life.


Come think of it, what's happening in Afghanistan.. How long do you think before that ****hole becomes a shining beacon of peace and democracy in that region?
Those battles were won, that war was won.. But them western troops ain't home and the talibums still blow stuff up.
Who here thinks it's time to invest in retirement properties in Afghanistan?
Anyone? no?

^^^^ yep...defending one's homeland, nobody GAF about the politics or why. Struck home to me in the Burns' documentary. The Americans were always referred to as "invaders" by the opposition. Just like in the ME....whether Iraq or A'stan....our presence is not welcome by a huge segment of the population. Same reason many in the south fought those "damn Yankees"... nothing more imo. We just never seem to learn the obvious lessons of our past....well, some don't.

LOL. Of course we were referred to as invaders. in Iraq and Afghanistan. We invaded both and crushed them, toppling their governments (in a matter of days). A lifetime of sucking up to the old leaders/regimes and subjugating everyone else for your gain went down the toilet in a month...and those that you had tortured were suddenly running things after a democratic election.

The damn Yankees were more like Saddam's folks..as they raped, pillaged and burned their way across the south (waging war on women and children)...and then would not go home (stealing much of the land/property) or allow the "conquered" citizens fully participate in the democracy for many years. Not a good analogy to what we did inIraq/Afghanistan after their governments fell by helping the new democratically elected governments/people defend themselves against terrorists.

I am pretty sure they would not have said so if it was not the case.

They were so thoroughly defeated when they came to the ParisPeace accords that they had to accept our terms. The south would have never fallen if we had kept our promises to them after the Accords. Just like in Iraq under a new administration, we gave up our democratically elected allies to our enemies for liberal politics. Both cases resulted in slaughter of those who had sided with us...and many that did not. Rewrite history as you like (because it has certainly been the case by those who were invested in opposing the war/s).

It still doesn't matter one iota because it did not happen.
And if it did, it would not have been a lasting peace anyway.
What would the US have done? occupied North Vietnam to Pacify all them little communists with cuddles and care packages till they saw the error of their ways??

And China would have just allowed that to happen?

Riiiiiiight

Like we did with Germany, Japan, Korea, Italy and Great Britain? Seemed to work pretty well.

We sound defeated both North Vietnam and the Chinese. They could only win (defeat Such Vietnam) years after we left...because we did not provide the weapons and airpower promised when we left (just like in Iraq)...due to a liberal Congress that prevented the President from doing so. Hard to defeat the Chinese without ammunition.

I do, yes. Easily disturbed by violent images. I just don't like em.

Wasn't the entire reason the USA was involved in this war to try and stop the spread of this type of behavior?

No, to stop the spread of communism.

The guy he is killing was tasked with killing the families of ARVN officers during the TET offensive....he , in fact, had killed women and children of ARVN officers....

I would have killed him too in the exact same manner......it is what a premediated killer deserves....

That's what I'm saying... totalarism.

I knew people that would have kneed capped him first and then cut his ears off, if there was anything left after that head shot. I got back December 22 1968 and saw it in some news then, it didn't bother me.

We have that available in capitalist and communist flavors, sir.
Which would you prefer this evening?

Capitalist please...they do not seem to kill as many of their own citizens as the socialist/communist type do....

I remember making coil clay pots in Jr. High in 1968.

Mine came out nice after firing. It had a blue glaze that was shiny.

Jesus, I have lived a sheltered and protected life.

I remember being a shake n bake NCO....after basic training and Infantry AIT I was sent to Ft. Benning Ga for a 3 month course and went from a PFC to a Sergeant. I was then sent to an Infantry unit in Vietnam as a squad leader....one of the most daunting but satisfying things I've ever done....the guys in my squad were magnificent...regardless of the lack of support, or an unpopular war, they went out every day and risked their lives...even tho knowing no one gave a damn.

That, to me, defines a great generation....it is easier to be 'great' when you have unanimous support from the top of the Govt. down to Mom/Pop and the guy on the street.

They carried on in the face of adversity....both with a determined enemy and an unpopular home base.

Oh, and if I had caught that Cong killing women and children I'd have shot him in the head too.

Don't think I hardly knew was a war was goin' on....I was a kid, and we didn't even have a TV in the house then. I stopped by a local BBQ joint today...I remember sitting in that same joint in '68 though...businesses were being firebombed (racial unrest after MLK?) and everybody walking down the street was carrying a long gun or had one strapped on their hip....can't go in there without remembering the exact table my family sat at...looking out that window. That era is ingrained in us all...some at different stages in life however. Had to fire a crew working on my chimney chase a couple of years ago...one of the old guys was a vet...we hit it off, and he opened up a bit...talked about the VC hanging poisonious snakes in the tunnels and schit...he was still "there" :(. Unfortunately, the younger boss he was living with was also a heroin junkie too...and his connection I discovered. Had to fire his boss (so did my neighbor)....the old vet did good work...just quelling his demons, the younger bunch had different reasons.....

The rest of us have no clue. That period defined us all who remember....I was eight in '68...recall the war events from then on. I saw my outgoing, flambouyant cousin's hubby go into a deep, dark place about 20 years later....boating down a local lake's large creek....he served on a PT boat...he didn't say a word, didn't have to...it was written all over his face and I just knew.

Thank you guys who served...sincerely.

War is some horrible siht. I was 3 years old in 1970. By the end I remember my father talking about the war Viet Nam war ending.

Around 1980, a young Vietnamese couple moved into the this guy's back house across the street. They were really nice people and always gave us neighbors food when they had something going on. They didn't have much but just starting out. She was pregnant so my mom gave them some furniture and baby stuff from another friend that was unloading them. They got to know each other pretty well over the years. I discovered that his sisters, mother, elderly father and their 2 year old baby was killed by the VC. They left the baby in a ditch in front of them. I was just a kid then, but remember their conversation and her emotion vividly. She was sobbing as she tried to tell us their story. WE were all freaking crying. If they caught guys like that killing innocent folks trying to live their lives, then I really don't feel too bad about it.

I really like to hear more from the people there about their daily lives and how they feel.

Thanks you guys who served, including the enemy. I know, they had to do what they had to do.

I go into a local Asian take-out place...been going for years and used to talk with the outgoing husband, my age, from Cambodia (RIP). His petite wife, my age still works her butt off....sometimes very friendly, often subdued when another male cook is back in the kitchen...she's actually dark then....I dunno.
One day she had her sleeve's rolled up....I saw the ID number tatooed on her forearm....sobering schit indeed :(.

Some stories to tell out of that woman. I just wish there was a way to get them to open up so the rest of the world would hear about it instead of just reading a sentence out of a history book in high school and that's it. I know it must bring back tremendous pain. When I visited the Museum of Tolerance back in the early 90s, a elderly Jewish woman spoke to us about her experience also had tattoos on her arm. I saw that and never to btich about things in my life.