Tactical error vs Error in execution

[Tervuren]

I notice that I often run into folks in life that can't tell the difference.

Tactics = Choosing cleaning supplies and methods picked to detail car.

Execution = putting the plan into motion.

Tactical Error = Choose paint solvent for your car wash.

Execution Error = Dropping car wash rag into sand and wiping with it.

When it comes to problem solving, often people will resort to blaming the tactic without first examining the execution of the tactic.

Why can some not tell the difference?

[GH85Carrera]

Because they always blame someone else! Never admit they made a mistake, it must be the people that sold the paint thinner to them to use as car wash! Sue that paint solvent company for not having a label, not for washing cars, and sue the retailer because the sold it.

[pwd72s]

Sorry you dropped the rag in the sand...

[pavulon]

Being accountable requires people to consider the possibility that they themselves are the issue and that is often painful. People will go to great lengths to avoid pain.

[svandamme]

in my experience (3rd line support hospital software and systems), a whole lot of people can't even explain or document a problem properly. They have "an" idea of what they are trying to fix.
But they get so stuck in their own train of thaught that well, forget about actually finding the problem.

It kinda works if it's a common basic problem that might happen more often.

But when you get down to the true exceptions and mistakes, they just run into a brick wall.

To me that says. There is nothing systematic or tactical about their approach. So it's not even a problem of poor execution of said tactics.

I joined my company 2,5 years ago, on hiring they asked me "how long do you think you'll need to be productive and effective" . I was like don't know, it's hard to predict since i'm coming from a completely different industry.. And i'm turning 40 so i guess i might slow down a little.
On previous jobs i was up and running and effective in 3 months .

They went, ohhh , well, we think it takes 12 to 18 months to be effective in this job..

I told 'm, well, "we will see bout that"

It was 3 months.

And why? Well, I'm a self learner , on the job.
put me in a class room and I'll space out, or fall a sleep or just get very , VERY annoyed.
But put load on my plate and i'll kick it in to high gear.

But how can I do 3rd line support in a company where everybody in 1st or 2nd line knows the products and systems for years ??

I think it's a Systematic approach of troubleshooting.
Asking the right questions
checking the right basics, like hard and software prerequisites
checking all the settings as per installation manual

My boss says at our level, our Superpower is "Comprehensive reading skills".
You know, good old RTFM

I think it's also the ability to define the scope of what you are trying to solve.
A Server that is down is easy to explain.
But a lot of people simply loose the plot when they have to explain a complicated workflow.
They just can't do it. And i'm talking app specialists here, that have been doing it for 10 years time. They are so used to working with the app, and expecting a certain behaviour.. That if and when they come up on a problem.. they just cannot explain it to you..

They will constrantly leave at crucial details , because in their head they know those details to be so obvious that, when they tell their problem, they obviously don't mention them.

[RKDinOKC]

In a HS class part of the class was to write a manual for TV repair. This was when there were still tubes in TVs. The first question in TV repar? "Is it plugged in?"

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by GH85Carrera

Because they always blame someone else! Never admit they made a mistake, it must be the people that sold the paint thinner to them to use as car wash! Sue that paint solvent company for not having a label, not for washing cars, and sue the retailer because the sold it.

Originally Posted by pavulon

Being accountable requires people to consider the possibility that they themselves are the issue and that is often painful. People will go to great lengths to avoid pain.

But what about a situation where their own execution of action wasn't involved?

I gave a simple example just because if I didn't I am not sure more than one or two would inherently understand the difference.

I do see people that can't take critical thinking to be applied to themselves in order to solve a problem. That is perhaps a little bit of a separate issue from not being able to separate failure of a plan from imperfections in how the plan was carried out.

Folks will just flat out give up on a good idea when it fails once, no perseverance or hindsight applied. It amazes me.

[Tervuren]

Supposed you made "Is it plugged in properly?" the first technical support direction that is taken about anything involving a device that needs to be plugged in properly to work.

The guys in charge of asking the question decide to just skip asking it.

If the most common problem was whether or not it is plugged in, and making this the policy to be the first thing to address did not shorten call time, would you give up on the idea of putting the most common problem first as "not working", or would you perhaps see if the reason for failure might lie with whether the question was actually being asked or not?

If your call guys aren't bringing the topic up first, then concluding bringing the most common problem up first doesn't work reflects an inability to check between a plan being flawed, and execution being flawed.

This extends beyond people not wanting to admit their own mistakes, this inability to comprehend nuances of execution as a reason for success/failure can extend to a manager that saw call time not decrease when a new policy on first item to address with customers was made. The manager wasn't the one ignoring the policy, but the manager decides the "policy failed".

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by svandamme

They just can't do it. And i'm talking app specialists here, that have been doing it for 10 years time. They are so used to working with the app, and expecting a certain behaviour.. That if and when they come up on a problem.. they just cannot explain it to you..

I learned about this when teaching people how to run machines.

I remembered to teach the things my teacher had just assumed, I was good there.

Turns out there were more things that needed to be said and not relied on figuring out.

Every time it would happen I would put one more thing to teach instead of assume in future.

I have also found that I could not assume when I was called out that written trouble shooting solutions for top common problems on a clipboard at each machine would actually have been read/tried. It was like they didn't exist.

Sometimes the solution to the parts not being right was that they had ignored large stamped letters in the metal of the pallet what to attach that pallet to, they'd use the wrong thing.(The tomb stones also would have specific stampings for how to mount things up.)

I'd get called out at least once a month for this insanely simple issue, explain it, point to the stamps, and....it would just keep repeating.

When this was happening I don't think the guys understood I was leaving machining, so they'd just do whatever and let me solve it, not fully realizing I had a more important job that was taking over.

I wasn't able to sift to the bottom of why such simple stuff was being ignored and what I could do about it as I pulled 100% into R&D and the manufacturing department was told they couldn't have me at all.

Machines ended up going quiet, silent, all for things that were written out but not checked.

When I was running and managing the machines I'd just solve it, and tell the operator what had gone on. Perhaps when I was transitioning out no one really communicated I was transitioning out, and that they needed to not rely on me in future. I made the assumption that because I knew the reason for my writing some steps out was because I wasn't going to be there anymore.

I also suspect that some of it is straight down to illiteracy of our country, they couldn't read. One of my best workers was honest, he couldn't read. I used picto-graphs for anything that needed to be in writing; he was my most reliable person I ever had work for me.

[Bill Douglas]

May I use this as an example.

My sister's dog peed on the 911's alloy wheels two days ago and I forgot to hose it off until right now.

I'm guessing this is a tactical error having just plain old forgot.



For those who don't know; it's a bit alkaline or accidic and gives the anodizing some grief.

[DanielDudley]

Well, you didn't execute the dog, and that may have been your tactical error right there.

[Tervuren]

svandamme, I'm curious if you would share how you think you arrived at your problem solving skills, it would seem from what you say that how you approach/think is a rarity.

[Bill Douglas]

Lol

[tabs]

My TV didn't work no matter how I fiddled with it. Only come to find it was not plugged in. So I did and it still didn't work? Imagine my consternation, come to find out they turned off my electricity for not paying the bill.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

svandamme, I'm curious if you would share how you think you arrived at your problem solving skills, it would seem from what you say that how you approach/think is a rarity.

I think it's because i never learn in the classic way, i tend to learn on the job by trial and error. So chances are I'll have seen the problem already before when learning it.
If you run into a wall once, you'll remember it, maybe not the details of wat type of brick it was.. but you'll know where the wall is.

Also as a kid I was much into Lego, i was alone a lot and would spend ages building stuff. Also spent a lot of time dimantling anything i could get my hands on.. radio's tvs, computers my bike, my motocycle.

I was a high school dropout, and wiggled my way in IT.

In the beginning of my career that was though, because i'de get stressed out and get locked in on a problem, like a writers block thing... the more i focussed the less ideas i got.

So i learned to distract myself from the problem, by doing something else.
Sometimes you have to ignore a problem a bit first to get an idea on how to fix it.

Obviously that don't work for urgent things. But for some reason I do better with urgent things because well, they tend to be clearly defined problems.


So the systematic approach on things for the most part has become instinctive.
It's sort of my thing..

It doesn't work on everything, like I can't do vbscript for the life of me..I'm not a programmer.

We have some really clever folks in our company, more clever then I am.
And those never escalate much to us, or when they do , it's a clear bug for R&D.

But some, they just never seem to progress or learn from previous encounters.
If you have somebody that escalated and issue, and you fixed it, with feedback to them that the prereq's weren't ok.
You'de think they would remember.
Maybe a second time they miss something.

But not 5 times in a row, within 6 months, right?

[ckelly78z]

Accountability is no longer an option for most people. I am amazed at the number of co-workers that try to deflect blame away from themselves, when it is clear who is at fault.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

Accountability is no longer an option for most people. I am amazed at the number of co-workers that try to deflect blame away from themselves, when it is clear who is at fault.

So is this an attempt to deflect blame; or a lack of understanding that a plan "failed" not because a plan was flawed, but some-where carrying out the plan was flawed?

I guess I'm one of the callous detached problem solver that is focused on finding solutions rather than dwelling on the emotional side of blame. Faults once noticed can be corrected if acknowledged. Blame on the other hand is quite useless to me.

I'm fortunate to not be in a largely toxic work environment, our goal is to make the customer happy. If you get caught up in internal hierarchy in a way that hurts the customer that gets ironed out fast.

[john70t]

Why stick your neck out..when it can only be chopped off?

You do a great job, and someone else will present it to the boss as their own.
Then the boss is going to start seeing you as a threat and his/her replacement.
Then they will raise the bar and demand you match expectations every single period. But Frank next door doesn't have to.
You figure out the company should be playing Dominoes instead of Connect4 and nobody will believe you anyways.

Best way is smile and look busy.

[svandamme]

Originally Posted by john70t

Why stick your neck out..when it can only be chopped off?

You do a great job, and someone else will present it to the boss as their own.
Then the boss is going to start seeing you as a threat and his/her replacement.
Then they will raise the bar and demand you match expectations every single period. But Frank next door doesn't have to.
You figure out the company should be playing Dominoes instead of Connect4 and nobody will believe you anyways.

Best way is smile and look busy.

Well, being the one that moves the most volume each year does have it's advantages.
My boss knows it, his boss knows it, and his bosses boss knows it.

At upper team meets another team lead told my boss he's lucky his stats look good because he has "the machine" in his team.

They can't ask me to do more when the second one in the list does half of what I do.

In fact, If i feel tired on a given day, i'll just let my boss know that i'll be working form home tomorrow.. which means slack day..
I'll be reachable but that's about the extend of any guarantees for that day.
he knows it, i know it.

Bonus time, well, Review is usually a 5 minute ordeal.
yeay you're still #1
yeay your bonus is fully funded at 110% (100% is 10% of my gross annual)
Keep it up
now let's go to lunch !

I can opt out of certain mandatory crap.. like trainings.
they wanted met to go to munich for 2 weeks and sit in a classroom.
I said no way blud, i hate travel, i hate being away from my kittycats at home. It gives me stress (not even lying).
They went, but it's mandatory.
I went, ok, then fire me
They went, well well, let's not rush into things.. But it's still mandatory everybody has to do it.
i went, well i can't, i have this ADHD sort of thing at trainings, just gimme the exam
but it's attached to the training
well detach it already.

So they did.
passed it on first go anyway. Without 2 weeks of training.

Actually, they should give me something like 5 days of vacation for that considering the amount of time i saved doing that crap.

[tabs]

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

Accountability is no longer an option for most people. I am amazed at the number of co-workers that try to deflect blame away from themselves, when it is clear who is at fault.

Trump is...