AR-15 truths?

[Rickysa]

I own one...a DPMS DCM Panther and love to make holes in paper with it.

But for home defense? (from the interwebs)
--it does't do damage like an XXXXX would? ie 7.62 etc
--designed to wound, to take more people out of the battle as they tend to the wounded?

--it damages by tumbling at distance?
--it produces through-and-through wounds?

and more.....

I post this here as opposed to any gun forum hoping for a more honest discussion.

I just bought a Winchester 1866 in .38 that is a blast to shoot, and am wondering if the larger lead would be a better option for defense at 50 yds?

I am not a "gun-guy" per se, as in it isn't really a hobby for me...I practice to be sufficiently (?) skilled and safe, but always welcome any/all information

[red-beard]

Actually of that is hearsay.

The rounds do not "tumble" in air, or they would be horribly inaccurate. Almost all rifle rounds are heavier at the end and yaw once they impact.

.223/5.56 seems to fragment, possibly due to the high velocity.

.223/5.56 is a killing round. It may be "less" likely to kill than a 0.308/7.62 round.

There are "debates" on a rifle vs. a pistol at short ranges. One thing that was found, shotgun 0 and 00 buck penetrate walls better than 0.223/5.56. 00 doesn't spread out much in short distances. Each pellet is about equal to being hit my a .32 ACP, and there are ~15 pellets. Most pistol rounds do not fragment or lose much energy going through sheet rock.

A legal short (16") AR-15 with a laser sight adjusted to short distances is very easy to shoot, has very low recoil and requires a lot less training to be good than a pistol. This is why the M1-Carbine was developed - Better than a 0.45ACP, easier to train to be proficient, 20 round magazine for quick reloading, smaller/lighter than a battle rifle.

[Rickysa]

Thanks RB..so much rubbish out there it's hard to glean the wheat from the chaff sometimes.

I did put a laser on my AR...neat.

[fintstone]

In general, i would consider it the best home defense weapon for most folks Especially if there are multiple assailants.

[vash]

i watched a show about home defense.

they brought out various guns and shot them thru made up home wall panels. the .223 fragmented and never exited the single wall. handguns went thru and out the simulated house.

i want one, but it aint gonna happen. not the government either..my wife. i love her and a black rifle just isnt part of her long term retirement plan. the fact that i CAN retire soon effs up any debate i can have about buying one. .

i want one for hunting. a 6.5 creedmore. just to complicate things.

[berettafan]

I own a Colt 6920.

IMO grabbing that gun for a self defense scenario would be beyond irresponsible owing to its ability to penetrate all manner of materials. There are others in my home and I have neighbors.

The mall ninja/soldier of fortune nonsense about wounding vs 7.62, tumbling, etc. is a distraction and not relevant. IMO the response to this sort of info being brought into a debate on suitability for home defense should be 'congrats on finding the AR wiki page, now go back to your xbox'.

JMHO.

[HardDrive]

I have a Sig 226 .40 for home defense. I shy away from rifles and shotguns simply because its easier to keep a pistol securely in a small space. I think my wife would be put off if there was a loaded weapon visible on the closet wall. I guess I also worry about the housekeeper seeing it. To each their own.

If I can't stop them with 10 rounds of .40 JHP, I doubt a rifle would have made a difference.

[berettafan]

regarding lead size, expansion, etc. you might watch some videos on youtube. lots to see there and some very carefully worked testing.

[KFC911]

For decades my Colt .45 ACP was my defensive spoon that didn't live in a safe...then 4-legged predators at my back fence line changed that to a Marlin lever w/ .357 hollow points. I have since added a nice old Remington 870 pump 19" bbl with Fiachi 00 low velocity buckshot...9 .30 pellets will spread to about 8" and penetrate a 2x6 at home defense range....like being hit with 4 .45 ACPs all at once....

So either the Marlin or Shotspoon is not locked up....YMMV

I know nothing about these new-fangled rounds ....but you sure don't wanna be on the wrong end of my picks either...

[HardDrive]

Truth: You can't buy on buy one a Dick's

[Rickysa]

Marlin lever w/ .357

Yep, for reaching out and touching someone, I really like the idea of the 1866. We have a quick-open pistol safe in the bedroom for my HK 45 and wife's Lady Smith...but for the meanies outside the laser AR and lever spoon seem to fit the bill

[legion]

I have a Glock with a light on it if I just hear a noise and want to check out what is going on.

I have something special in one of these if I feel that I need to fight my way to my safe room or the SHTF.

https://www.secureitgunstorage.com/product/hidden-gun-safe-model-47/

[scottmandue]

Originally Posted by vash

i watched a show about home defense.

they brought out various guns and shot them thru made up home wall panels. the .223 fragmented and never exited the single wall. handguns went thru and out the simulated house.

i want one, but it aint gonna happen. not the government either..my wife. i love her and a black rifle just isnt part of her long term retirement plan. the fact that i CAN retire soon effs up any debate i can have about buying one. .

Mini 14?

I have a 870 and a 9mm for home defense, also an Ithaca 37 featherlight that I need to sell to finance a .357 wheel spoon. (was going to get into clays but never happen)

[Tobra]

Originally Posted by scottmandue

Mini 14?

Yup, the answer in 5.56/.223

Depending on ammunition, a fine home defense choice.

[Eric Coffey]

Originally Posted by berettafan

I own a Colt 6920.

IMO grabbing that gun for a self defense scenario would be beyond irresponsible owing to its ability to penetrate all manner of materials.

Please explain. Obviously you wouldn't want to load your HD mags with barrier-blind rounds.
So taking that option out of the equation, how exactly is a standard (or HD-specific) .223/5.56 round a "beyond irresponsible" choice, as compared to other HD choices (9mm, .45, 12ga, etc.)?

I can think of a few reasons for it not being a practical choice, but am not seeing how it would be an irresponsible one.

[Rick Lee]

I was out shooting some .5" steel spinner targets rated for up to .44 mag. My .45, .40S&W and .357SIG rounds bounced off like bb's. Then I hit it with a .223 and it looked like I had poked my index finger through an inflated balloon. .223 doesn't penetrate drywall? In what universe?

[varmint]

I keep a revolver loaded with .454 casull by the bed. **** anyone on the other side of that wall. Or three hundred yards away hiding behind a car.

[scottmandue]

I'm curious, I have very little experience with rifles but thought .223 was for long range and therefor would penetrate (several) walls?

Edit to add: I see Rick beat me to it.

I also presumed bird shot in my 12 gauge would have the least penetration?

[Rickysa]

[Rickysa]