I witnessed the Death Wobble this morning

Porchdog · 04-18-2018, 03:52 AM

My commute to work is on an entertaining secondary road - mostly twisty and hilly and most of the road has no shoulder.

I occasionally find myself behind this particular Jeep. I find him annoying as he drives too slow for me. He also has a pair of huge steel hex nuts hanging from a chain on his hitch and a back window covered with stickers.

I followed him for about 7 miles this morning, at or below the speed limit. As we are going down a long, gradual decline at about 35 MPH his front wheels start violently shaking. This continued for about 200 yards until he got down to about 25 MPH and it stopped. A half mile later he turned off at his usual turn.

I'm not a fan of Jeeps but my boy's friend have some so I have learned a few things about them. I had heard of Death Wobble and I have experienced some wobble in old solid axle trucks, but never anything this violent. I can't imagine it happening at highway speed.

No wonder he drives so slow. No excuse for the nuts though.

onewhippedpuppy · 04-18-2018, 03:54 AM

I used to think having an old CJ5 would be fun, so I test drove one with a Chevy 350 swap. At about 55 the wobble started, I drove it back to his house at about 40. No thanks.

ckelly78z · 04-18-2018, 03:59 AM

I never had the death wobble in my 85 CJ7 when we had it, but did experience this multiple times when I was a teenager in my 383 1968 Dodge Dart GTS....scary, and annoying.

sand_man · 04-18-2018, 04:50 AM

We've got an '05 Wrangler TJ, 4.0L, six speed that we use at the beach...it is terrible on the interstate!!!! TERRIBLE!!! This is especially true if it's windy. 65 is the magic number...past that and it feels squirly. I need to spend some time with the suspension, because this can't be right.

Mark Henry · 04-18-2018, 05:43 AM

My in-laws have two newer jeeps, they love them or should say the perceived lifestyle, but I've put the lift kit in them, worked on them (reluctantly I don't do jeeps) and/or given them service advice.
They are slow, eat brakes, front end parts are short term consumables, parts can't handle dirt, water and mud whatsoever.

Total POS, poser off road junk IMHO.

ckelly78z · 04-18-2018, 06:03 AM

My 1985 CJ-7 was only a few years old at the time, but was still a complete handfull on the highway (especially in wind), the tires found every crack in the roads and followed them. We changed out the meaty 31x12.5x15 Goodyear Wrangler mud tires for much more sensible 30x10x15 all terrain tires and improved slightly (not nearly enough).

Sensory overload on the highway with a soft top, not as bad with a hardtop, and undoable with no top for any length of time.

A930Rocket · 04-18-2018, 06:06 AM

Damn that's rough to watch, I had no idea they did that.

sand_man · 04-18-2018, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ckelly78z

...Sensory overload on the highway with a soft top, not as bad with a hardtop, and undoable with no top for any length of time.

Yeah, ours is a soft top...crazy wind noise!!!! You put it very well, "sensory overload"!

onewhippedpuppy · 04-18-2018, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sand_man

We've got an '05 Wrangler TJ, 4.0L, six speed that we use at the beach...it is terrible on the interstate!!!! TERRIBLE!!! This is especially true if it's windy. 65 is the magic number...past that and it feels squirly. I need to spend some time with the suspension, because this can't be right.

I had a TJ and it was just fine on the highway, except for being slow. I suspect you've got some worn out ball joints or tie rods.

sand_man · 04-18-2018, 06:13 AM

My fiance bought our jeep on a whim...something she'd always wanted. Anyway, I have never heard of this "death wobble" phenomenon until this thread. I had no idea! More info:
https://www.extremeterrain.com/wrangler-jeep-death-wobble.html

red 69 · red 69's Garage

Its not just jeeps that get this, motorcycles, lifted trucks any alignment change can get the same results if not done correct.

asphaltgambler · 04-18-2018, 07:18 AM

Several things in play geometry-wise that sets this in motion. First when the manufacturer is designing the proper front end geometry tire size, wheel offset, intended use. For off road - 4 wheel drive vehicles very little caster and negative camber is used, especially in straight axle applications as it makes steering difficult at low/ no speeds.

Also there is a "point of intersection" - vertically speaking where talking the above angles - factoring distance between the spindle and where the center of the tire contact patch hits the pavement.

By adding ( or subtracting) wheel and tire diameter, adding ( or subtracting) wheel off set - then adding unsprung weight as well as rotational weight can and will cause this.

asphaltgambler · 04-18-2018, 07:21 AM

The only common solution once you install larger wheels / tires is introduce more caster through wedge plates or aftermarket offset cams in the front.

DerkPerk · 04-18-2018, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onewhippedpuppy

I had a TJ and it was just fine on the highway, except for being slow. I suspect you've got some worn out ball joints or tie rods.

I have a TJ with a 3” lift and 33” tires and haven’t had an issue at highway speeds either. There is something wrong there. Like said above, it’s all about the correct geometry and components working together.

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LakeCleElum · 04-18-2018, 07:46 AM

1978 for me. Riding a Kawasaki KZ1000P....The only year with the windshield mounted to the forks instead of the frame.

Slowing down from triple digit speeds on a lonely section of freeway with a moderate cross wind. Get down to about 85 and a terrible tank slapper that would put me down. Only solution was to speed up again and try re-entry all over again. Did this 3 times and no love. I finally figured I needed more weight over the front wheel.

I leaned way forward and hit front brake for weight transfer. It worked. I stayed up....

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

My 03 Dodge 2500 with the Cummins diesel would do this if I hit an expansion joint on an overpass at highway speeds. Was very unnerving. I eventually got it sorted but it required a pair of brown pants to drive. Even if they didn’t start out brown, they eventually wound up that color...

Dodge trucks - made out of broken.

unclebilly · unclebilly's Garage

Quote:

Originally Posted by DerkPerk

I have a TJ with a 3” lift and 33” tires and haven’t had an issue at highway speeds either. There is something wrong there. Like said above, it’s all about the correct geometry and components working together.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fact - just because it hasn’t happened yet, doesn’t mean it won’t.

vash · vash's Garage

i had a 1984 CJ7. best time of my life.

no death wobble..this is actually the first time i've heard of it.

my sister took my stepdads 70's Jeep Scrambler..it is lanquishing in her garage, unsmoggable in Colorado. what a waste!! i cant even talk about it, without getting worked up in a froth.

i would drop that retro cummin diesel into that thing if i had it. sister is an idiot.

IROC · IROC's Garage

I've owned many straight-axle Toyotas (all of them lifted with bigger tires) and have never experienced this. My current daily driver is an FZJ80 Land Cruiser (lifted with 33s). Must be a Jeep thing - I wouldn't understand.

fastfredracing · 04-18-2018, 08:55 AM

I see this a lot . It is amazing, how violent it gets. No matter how strong you are, you are not going to get it back under control, only way , is to slow down.
Usually in jeeps,I find bad track bar bushings, or worn steering parts/stabilizer , bad bushings etc. Once big tires go on, it gets tougher to make it go away.
It also seems that unbalance on tires, or worn/ frozen wheel u joints/cv joints can initiate the oscillation.