Building half of a cabin

[BK911]

Bought some land to build my retirement cabin on, but dont have enough money to build the whole thing.
Enough has to get built to allow for plumbing and electrical.
So I have decided to just build the basement portion, then save up some money and build up the rest.
Basement is walk out on two sides, and about 5' underground in the back.
I am confused on how to build the "roof".

Considering two options; 1. pitch the floor trusses or 2. pitch the roofing.

1. The initial plan was to put the 28' floor trusses directly on the sill plate on one side, and on a 6x6 on the other. Use roll roofing over plywood for the roof. When money decides I can go vertical, use floor jacks to lift up the trusses to remove the 6x6. Scrape off the roll roofing and start building. Cabin is 28x28 with a 4' wide stairway in the middle. I could install the trusses in (2) 12' wide sections, leaving the 4' stairwell opening in the middle, which would make the jacking a bit easier.

2. The other option is to lay the trusses flat and build up a pitched roof. These are kinda expensive, especially for something that will be scraped off later.

Thoughts?

[Porchdog]

Build the first floor deck on top of your block.

Add an extra doubled top plate, all the way around.

Build a truss roof the way you want the finished house on the upper plate. Use clips between the plate and floor deck to hold them together for now. Include strong jacking points out to the eaves so the jacks can be outboard when the time comes (tell your truss supplier what you plan to do.)

When it comes time to add a story or two, place the jacks, disconnect the clips and lift it up.

You can tilt up the new walls from the floor deck. You could even do this twice and get two stories.

You will need an understanding building inspector. Nothing unsafe or inherently violating code about the approach.

[vash]

i think build the final roof now. secure it down, when you come back lift it up like Pdog suggests.

[GWN7]

Many years ago I was in Detroit Lakes, MN for the long weekend. Driving around town to get sense of the town I came across what looked like a outhouse on top of a basement. They were all covered in roll roofing running up the sides of the outhouse and it had a steel insulated door on the front. There was a wooden post which had a electrical meter attached on one corner. The post was braced really well.

There were two homes like that on the street. I stopped and spoke to a neibour who was cutting his grass and asked what the deal was. He said both homes were owned by young couples who only had so much money. They saved to buy the lots and then to put the basement in. The plan was they lived in the basements till they had saved enough money for the materials to build the houses they wanted. Beside being called "The Mole People" it was very comfortable inside. The city first objected to it but as there were two family's doing this they let it slide.

This was back in the mid 70's

Build yours, put in the mechanicals so you can enjoy the property and build when you can.

[crb07]

Originally Posted by Porchdog

Build the first floor deck on top of your block.

Add an extra doubled top plate, all the way around.

Build a truss roof the way you want the finished house on the upper plate. Use clips between the plate and floor deck to hold them together for now. Include strong jacking points out to the eaves so the jacks can be outboard when the time comes (tell your truss supplier what you plan to do.)

When it comes time to add a story or two, place the jacks, disconnect the clips and lift it up.

You can tilt up the new walls from the floor deck. You could even do this twice and get two stories.

You will need an understanding building inspector. Nothing unsafe or inherently violating code about the approach.

I agree with this. Why you are at it figure out the cost to frame the second floor and side it without finishing off the inside. Maybe not as much as you think and will save you a lot of hassle later.

[petrolhead611]

They seem to do this in Greece all the time.Uncompleted reinforced concrete , with the rods sticking up through the top of the ground floor roof awaiting funds to build the second floor. Sometimes like that for years

[RKDinOKC]

Heard somewhere they did that in Greece because for some reason an unfinished 2nd floor made the taxes a lot less.

[Porchdog]

Just a note on why I suggested the process I did - The finished first floor deck provides a diaphragm that ties the block walls together. That makes the base structure solid and stable. Then you don't have to worry about doing that under some temporary or low clearance structure.
You also have good structural walls to brace the jacks to lift the roof.
By finishing the roof with trusses it is also a unified structure - diaphragms around the outside and a stiff (doubled plate) perimeter. This allows you to jack it up without racking it and makes it safe on the jacks while you work under it.
You always need to account for weather while you are working - you don't want high winds shifting or lifting off your temporary roof.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by RKDinOKC

Heard somewhere they did that in Greece because for some reason an unfinished 2nd floor made the taxes a lot less.

In Egypt it is a common to design a building with one more story than you plan to build.

Because the building is never finished you never pay taxes on a finished building.

So it isn't the unfinished 2nd floor, but rather an unfinished floor at the top period.

Want a 10 story building? Draw up an 11 story design and stop at 10.

Funny how tax code works in making people do silly things.

[Porchdog]

I suppose that you could save some money initially by decking the first floor and then building a flat roof on top of that. The disadvantages would be that you would need a water tight deck (probably with some pitch). That deck would eventually be scrapped. Seems like a lot of work and investment to throw away.

[BK911]

Thanks guys.
The only issue with building the final roof is money.
Roof trusses, plywood, roofing, etc will add at least $15k to the project.
If I went that route, I would just put the 8' walls in place and tyvex the whole thing.
Rough estimate is about $25k to dry in the second story.
I have it, but wanted to spend it on a dock and boat ramp.
Priorities!

Originally Posted by Porchdog

I suppose that you could save some money initially by decking the first floor and then building a flat roof on top of that. The disadvantages would be that you would need a water tight deck (probably with some pitch). That deck would eventually be scrapped. Seems like a lot of work and investment to throw away.

This is what I am leaning towards, but not sure why I would have to scrap the "deck". The deck would be a plywood floor with rolled roofing on top. Just the rolled roofing would have to be scrapped, the plywood should still be ok???

[Porchdog]

I may be a bit stuck on our snow loads up here.

I'm pretty skeptical of a rolled roof with no pitch. Also, the rolled roof needs to be nailed down - which could trash the deck for any flooring you eventually want to put on it. The big issue with roofing is uplift - that's why built up roofing frequently has stone ballast on it.

I suppose the if your first floor will overhang your foundation you could pitch it in the direction of the joists to act as a temporary roof. I don't like overhanging decks as they are difficult to provide proper sealing/ weather proofing. They are also prone to mold issues.

For your idea it may be the only way to go. After you take the temporary roofing off and level the deck you will probably need a subfloor to level/smooth out the deck.

[DanielDudley]

Originally Posted by BK911

Thanks guys.
The only issue with building the final roof is money.
Roof trusses, plywood, roofing, etc will add at least $15k to the project.
If I went that route, I would just put the 8' walls in place and tyvex the whole thing.
Rough estimate is about $25k to dry in the second story.
I have it, but wanted to spend it on a dock and boat ramp.
Priorities!




This is what I am leaning towards, but not sure why I would have to scrap the "deck". The deck would be a plywood floor with rolled roofing on top. Just the rolled roofing would have to be scrapped, the plywood should still be ok???

I've seen it, it works.

[john70t]

(sorry to be the party pooper but..)

If that is really a 6ft wall of unsupported dirt..
With mountain of dirt uphill..
And the wall is not triple thick with rebar and poured centers and 5 layers of of rubberized barrier and internal steel pilings and every other imaginable reinforcement again mudslides and water infiltration..

stop right there and take care of it while it's still just a bunch of blocks.

Those 100 year floods are just about every other year these days.
Plan for the worst. The future. Build 10x over.
Then you can rest easy.

[BK911]

I appreciate the concern.
It's 12" block with rebar every 2' and filled with concrete.
A multi layered rubberized water proof coating is on all under grade block.
The structure sits about 200' away from the lake and about 50' above the top of the dam.
Above the structure is a pretty thick forest and only about another 100' elevation increase over a mile or so.
So zero threat of a flood, and highly unlikely mud slide.
Hopefully!!!

[rfuerst911sc]

Is there a possibilty of borrowing the money to get it under final roof ? Money is fairly cheap right now to borrow and you do the labor one time , why come back later and do rework ? Like you said get the walls/roof up and cover with house wrap . You may have to rewrap with house wrap every year due to UV exposure but it's relatively inexpensive . I like the idea of getting it weather tight to protect the basement .

[crb07]

Originally Posted by BK911

I appreciate the concern.
It's 12" block with rebar every 2' and filled with concrete.
A multi layered rubberized water proof coating is on all under grade block.
The structure sits about 200' away from the lake and about 50' above the top of the dam.
Above the structure is a pretty thick forest and only about another 100' elevation increase over a mile or so.
So zero threat of a flood, and highly unlikely mud slide.
Hopefully!!!

Make sure you put a drain pipe to collect water including gravel around the foundation to remove any ground water that builds up.

[crb07]

Originally Posted by rfuerst911sc

Is there a possibilty of borrowing the money to get it under final roof ? Money is fairly cheap right now to borrow and you do the labor one time , why come back later and do rework ? Like you said get the walls/roof up and cover with house wrap . You may have to rewrap with house wrap every year due to UV exposure but it's relatively inexpensive . I like the idea of getting it weather tight to protect the basement .

I would try and get the second floor dried in. Even if you have to borrow some money. Money is still cheap and not having to come back and do it later makes a lot of sense. I would do this and go without the dock for a few years. Trying to cover a floor system with rolls of roofing material and fight to keep the water out does not sound like a fun plan.

[Noah930]

Originally Posted by RKDinOKC

Heard somewhere they did that in Greece because for some reason an unfinished 2nd floor made the taxes a lot less.

Don't know about Greece, but that is the situation in Morocco. Like Teruven explained, an unfinished building doesn't get taxed.

[petrolhead611]

You would think the Government's if those countries would say that after perhaps 3 years the house ,with or without the top floor is considered complete and tax is due immediately please