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I paid around $25 for mine on ebay...works great.

That's got to be one of the most useful little shooting doo dads I own. I'm constantly swapping out sights or scopes on my various rifles; I can never leave well enough alone. This little tool has paid for itself a hundred times over in the ammo I've saved trying to get on paper.

That said, A930Rocket is already on paper, so he is past that stage. At this point, I would caution him "don't touch that dial" in my best T.V. announcer voice. Just shoot, and get some trigger time and rounds downrange. It doesn't really matter exactly where they are hitting at this point, just so they are on paper, and we can track progress. "Progress" at this point comes in the form of smaller, more consistent groups. Right now, the groups I see are far too large to really zero the rifle. One can wind up chasing it, until groups get small enough to be able to discern their centers.

Before you do that, though, see about that coach. Practice before any qualified instruction will simply engrain bad habits that will be harder to break once you do find an instructor. Ask any of us who have taught rifle shooting - it's far easier to teach someone who has never even held a rifle than it is to teach someone who has already "taught" themselves.

That was my thought as well. The way that he's pulling the trigger is causing the low and right group. So your shooting is potentially flawed, but rather than fix the shooting, you've now adapted your scope to compensate.

I'm not being judgemental. I just know that I've had the same issue with a pistol, and if my sights were adjustable, I'd probably have done the same.

We have one of these hanging at our pistol range. Not applicable to rifle shooting, but great information for pistol shooters:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1528167332.jpg

A930ROCKET,
I have yet to see a rifle/person shoot as accurately from a bi-pod as from a rest. Prone and properly slung is better yet for the majority of rifles. A relatively cheap steady bag set up can be made from shot bags, a full bag in front and less than half for the rear. Adjust height with wood. To help mitigate the vibration use a rolls of carpet padding that is flattened. Years ago (20?) Precision shooting had some articles about bench resting AR style rifles and came to the conclusion that placing front rest vice further forward significantly reduced group size, though it magnified shooter error.

Breathing is important. Practice taking your breath by keeping your chest still and expanding your stomach to fill the bottom of your lungs, you’ll get more oxygen in your system. Breath in let it out only ½-3/4 out. If you haven’t broken the shot in 6 to no more than 8 seconds start over.

Hand sizes vary and you may not be able to get your front digit on the trigger properly even if you change the grip to a larger one. A whole lot of people grip harder with their whole hand when pulling a trigger vice pulling straight back with their trigger finger, people are use gripping with their whole hand. Practice dry firing.

Scope, mount, rings, and mounting can be a problem. I don’t know where the parallax is set on that scope. To minimize place your cheek the exact same place very time. Place a piece of tape on the stock where your cheek goes and make sure your cheek goes there every time. I learned trained to place either my lip or nose (depending on the sighting system) to the charging handle of AR type rifles for consistency. Make sure your scope is correctly adjusted for your vision.

Most ARs are good to about 1.5 MOA out to 300 meters with good quality match ammunition (Black Hills, Federal, Hornady, Nosler, etc.). I figure to add ½-3/4 MOA is shooting from a rest.

One of the easiest ways to find some good instruction is a High power match. Look up a NRA High power match and/or contact the Parris Island PAO to get Marksmanship unit for a school trained CWO.

S/F, FOG

I had the same thought when I read he had the trigger close to the joint on the first group and his pad on the second.

Many people are finding that using the lead sled with a scoped rifle has led to issues with the scope. I don't use one much as I don't mind the recoil and use an X bag but it has been on a few forums for a couple years now.

I would sight it in like you are going to shoot it unless it is a heavy rifle but your second group looks dialed in enough for now. When you get very tight groups you might need to move it.

For example, holding the rifle prone with a sling will impact slightly different than using a bipod and your left hand on the stock in your arm pit for support.

There is my $.02 which is worth even less when adjusted for inflation.

Found the video on YouTube and will watch it later.

Thank you!

I've ordered a couple of sandbags I'll try out this weekend. Maybe get a sling attached to wrap my arm around.

The range is made of a roof, a long bench side to side and seats that rotate forward/backward and are height adjustable. Probably 12 places to fire from. There is no place to shoot prone.

I'll have to take a picture next time.

Lots to learn and practice!

Thanks again guys!

Seated at a solid bench, on sandbags is better than prone (for me).

As mentioned, try a few different flavors of ammo. AR15s tend to have a fast twist rate so prefer the heavier projectiles, but experimenting is fun.

I sighted for 25/300m then aim for the bellybutton for the in between.

don't hold your breath. the pause when you inhale, and exhale fully. hold it then squeeze the trigger, and hold it till the next round cycles, and you can hear the click when you release the trigger.

post up some closer range shooting... you're lacking the fundamentals.

iron sights. Best shooting I do is when I have nose to charging handle.

Yeah, Id say at least 5 MOA is a reasonable expectation for the average shooter with most "run of the mill" ARs out there, using halfway-decent ammo. However, there are plenty of AR-platform rifles/barrels that are capable of MOA and sub-MOA accuracy. This includes chrome-lined and/or non "match grade" barrels. For instance, I have a 14.5" Colt SOCOM (heavy) barrel that is sub-MOA capable with the right ammo.
I also have an 16" stainless Noveske that is half-MOA capable (match ammo, me doing my part, yadda, yadda).

Make sure you figured out parallax on your scope.
if you move your head around on your scope, the cross hairs should not move around over your target.
This is more likely to cause shooting errors at 100 then anything else.

Then it's just a question of not jerking the trigger and good ammo/barrel.


my Sabre 20inch HBAR rand MOA all day long
but that was with a Leupold HAMR , handloads and no parallax.
Boring as hell really

with my Win 70 and 10x40 Leupold Mark4 I sucked at 100
I hated it, crappy 2 inch groups, bad strings horrible
So i zeroed at 400 and then went to shoot 1000 yards which went just great

But to be honest, scoped shooting bored me, and prone sling shooting is bad for my back
so sold all my crap and now I blow money on Porsches again :D

My shooting position as seen in the movies. :)

Sometimes my left hand is on my shoulder and some times on the handle off the barrel.

What’s the best position?

I still need to find my sweet spot where I look at the scope and see everything correctly.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1528296076.jpg

The range is 100 yards max.

I’d love me to see what it’s like to shoot 2-3 times longer.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1528298219.jpg

Dang. Those are some tall ass bipods. That is a nice range. They don’t have a stack of sandbags anywhere?

Sight in on bags , then go Hollywood.

Those pods are not the correct tool for digging in. Not in my opinion

right or wrong; this is exactly how i do it.

i have three sandbags. nothing fancy. mine are the ones you see the contractors weighing down temporary constructions signs so they dont blow over with the wind.

i arrange two up front. one on top of each other. the top bag, i fold so there is a "valley" running towards the target. i nestle the forestock in this valley. the last bag, i put close to me under the gun's stock..at the butt. i schooch up behind that gun and hug the bag under the butt. i peek thru the scope. i move the back bag back/forth so it runs up and down the butt (which is tapered right?). this changes the guns elevation at the back so i can get the cross hairs setting on bulls eye. the rifle is 100% supported by sandbag. i could let go and the rifle would stay aiming dead bullseye.

now all i have to do is slowly squeeze..the BOOM startles me. at this point the recoil has jumped the rifle off of target.

repeat. i wouldnt sight in with those 'pods. get as much sighting error out by getting your scope deadnuts. you can add (and will) add error later..the "misses" are minimized by at least having the rifle sighted perfectly.

With a low recoil rifle it doesn't really matter what you do with your left hand
223 is easy enough to manage.
holding left hand at the buttstock is more relevant on bigger calibers to help manage recoil and jump of the rifle butt.


I would not shoot a bipod that high, i would expect that it jumps shooting like that.
but if it works for you, then by all means.

Personally i would get a 3/6 harris bipod on the lowest setting possible
And put a sand bag in front of it, to put the bipod against or just not use a bipod and fully use the sandbags instead like vash suggests


I would also go prone, shooting off a table is for geriatrics and people with a really bad back or in a wheel chair..
But that's just me...I hate hard table shooting it's not beneficial for good results.
Not unless you bring a big benchrest rig and pull a string instead of a trigger.

The lower you can go the more stable and repeatable you will shoot

Feel free to PM me....I've been thru Sniper schools thru both the FBI and Army Green Beret course....Army class was far superior...In both, we were shooting tight groups at 600 Meters.....

next time; lead off with this! that way i could avoid posting my crappy instructions. :D

close thread now please.