Driving etiquette. Am I missing something?

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by masraum

Yeah, I suspect the daughter didn't quite understand and the other wankers weren't completely paying attention.

I don't think I've probably seen it more than a handful of times in the 24-ish years that I've been here.

No she understood.

She'd spent a few years in the car witnessing me losing my poo when it happens.

She had a discussion with her instructor and expressed how stupid it was.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Drivers in TX, at least the Dallas are, don't zipper merge.

Austin is the only place I know where the zipper merge is common but Austin probably has more foreigners residing there than the rest of the state combined.

There have been numerous awareness campaigns launched recently trying to get people to get on board.

Not zippering is a thing they used to and still do teach in drivers ed even though the state admits that's not the best way and is trying to change attitudes about it.

Stay In Your Lane: Why The Zipper Merge Is Texas' Best Chance To Reduce Traffic | KUT

All you have to do is not put "this lane ends" out miles in advance.

Then people change lanes to whichever one isn't as back logged natural, when they get to the end you get a natural zipper merge.

Once the lane ending is announced in advanced, what those trucks are doing is highly useful as it keeps traffic from stopping as much and creates a better flow.

The trucks are creating a zipper merge that arrives at the destination.

I know that I am always happy to see the two trucks doing this, as it causes the "zipper merge" to happy from those two trucks back.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by Tervuren

I know that I am always happy to see the two trucks doing this, as it causes the "zipper merge" to happy from those two trucks back.

I'll finish the thought "...as long as it's happening in my rearview mirror."

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by masraum

I have been known to be efficient.

Also, if I am trying to be efficient, but for whatever reason, I don't find a spot where I had room to merge, I will pass my turn and go around. I figure it is the price that I paid for planning to cut in line, even if I cut in a big space because some other moron wasn't paying attention which I feel no guilt or remorse for.

I’m not saying 100% of the time I’m cutting the queue in the name of efficiency, although my post could easily leave one with that impression. It entirely depends on the situation.

There are traffic snarls and situations around here that happen every single day that only rookies or lemmings deal with because they are ignoring entire lanes of pavement. We pay for that pavement with our tolls and taxes. May as well use all of it. My family EZ Pass bill was on the order of $6000 last year...I’m getting my money’s worth.

[masraum]

Originally Posted by jwasbury

I’m not saying 100% of the time I’m cutting the queue in the name of efficiency, although my post could easily leave one with that impression. It entirely depends on the situation.

There are traffic snarls and situations around here that happen every single day that only rookies or lemmings deal with because they are ignoring entire lanes of pavement. We pay for that pavement with our tolls and taxes. May as well use all of it. My family EZ Pass bill was on the order of $6000 last year...I’m getting my money’s worth.

Wow! That's a lot of tolls.

Right, sometimes, it doesn't pay to be more efficient and try to squeeze in farther up, just no point. Sometimes, it does. There are lots of folks that are very passive or patient (in no hurry, and happy to wait) drivers, and sometimes, I'll get around those folks if I can do it without having to force someone to let me in.

Also, and I try to remember this, sometimes a person doesn't drive a particular route every day or maybe ever and has no idea that the traffic backs up every day and realizes kind of late that the traffic that they've been wondering about is the traffic that they need to be a part of.

Life's too short to get pissed off at everyone on the road that does something that you perceive as stupid. It's better for everyone to just let it go.

[svandamme]

Merging at the end . Zipper is mandatory by law here because it reduces tjam length.

If everybody sticks to his lane till the end. And does not leave gaps for others to merge to soon. Every body will get through it a the fairest fastest way.

Anything else is worse. Computer model
And real world model proven.

[Baz]

Originally Posted by dheinz

Pennsylvania interstate hiway constuction areas use signs that say "Use both lanes to merge point", " Merge point, take your turn".
It seems to work.

Originally Posted by billybek

Every construction site should have those signs!
It is much more fair than people stacking up the one through lane and having people shoot by and merge at the end.

Originally Posted by Gogar

That’s stupid.
Here, please read this from the TEXAS DOT blog

Go Ahead!: Is the "zipper merge" rude?

And please look at this picture they used (admittedly borrowed from the MN DOT)
Which coincidentally describes situations from this very thread!!

Should be broadcasted on TV every day - all year - all day long. Every channel should devote a half hour per day to educate the masses on how to drive properly.

We actually should have a TV station that only airs driving skills, etiquette, and safety.

"The Driving Channel".

[jwasbury]

Originally Posted by masraum

Wow! That's a lot of tolls.

No kidding. Extrapolate that by the hundreds of thousands of other motorists in my area that also use the bridges, tunnels and toll roads daily, then marvel at how the roads are completely bombed out with potholes which will destroy any lower profile tires/rims in short order, and wonder where all that money is going

[wayner]

Originally Posted by drkshdw

Do you need to merge 2 miles prior? No but if there is space 2 miles before to get over, do it because there won't be space at the merge. I mean, that's just rude to make 20 people stop to let you in because you couldn't get in line when you had your chance.

And don't even get started on this 'zipper merge' business they are trying to implement. It only works on paper.

I agree

I also disagree (but not in this situation)

Zipper works well at traffic lights where as many cars as possible can get through the light when its green, and then sort themselves out on the side before the lane ends while there is a red behind them.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Merging at the end . Zipper is mandatory by law here because it reduces tjam length.

If everybody sticks to his lane till the end. And does not leave gaps for others to merge to soon. Every body will get through it a the fairest fastest way.

Anything else is worse. Computer model
And real world model proven.

There is no argument on this. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that using all of the available pavement/real estate is the best way. If not, why not get in a single file line 10 miles back?

If people were good enough drivers, the zipper move could be done without even slowing down.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by speeder

There is no argument on this. Anyone with an ounce of common sense would know that using all of the available pavement/real estate is the best way. If not, why not get in a single file line 10 miles back?

If people were good enough drivers, the zipper move could be done without even slowing down.

People can't even seem to merge at on and off ramps these days.

The guy getting off who has to slow down seems to always insist on racing ahead of the guy pulling on who has to speed up. Drivers these days seem to be self centered, self absorbed and overly competitive

And in a one lane merge, for the polite guy who merges way early and then gets pissed off when someone goes racing up the open lane, you are only pissed off because you had a false expectation of how it was supposed to work. You should have stayed in your lane and used it instead of pissing off the guy in the right lane who had to slow down and make room for you. He is only pissed off because he had other expectations.

And for the lane planners who set up the one lane merge BEFORE the offramp, whats wrong with you, do you just do that for sport?? ('cause that messes up the whole system and creates these unnecessary thread clogging up the internets).

[drkshdw]

Originally Posted by speeder

If people were good enough drivers, the zipper move could be done without even slowing down.

Maybe at 2am when there's only a few cars on the road.

If you've got 3 car lengths between you and the car in front of you (provided you are not in rush hour traffic) and someone zipper merges in between, you both now only have 1 car length between each of you. In some parts of the country, that will get you pulled over for 'following too closely'. The only solution is to slow down until the car in front of you is safely far enough ahead to continue. Do that a few times and next thing you know, both lanes are stopped to allow everyone to get up to speed with safe enough distances between them.

Again, the zipper merge is great in theory and on paper but in real life, it just doesn't work like that. You can't take bumper to bumper traffic in two lanes and make them squeeze into one without delay.

[wayner]

Originally Posted by drkshdw

...Again, the zipper merge is great in theory and on paper but in real life, it just doesn't work like that. You can't take bumper to bumper traffic in two lanes and make them squeeze into one without delay.

True, but LESS delay. Otherwise I couldn't even get on the interstate from the city street because the one lane would be too long.

[vash]

it the State's Standard for traffic handling.. that two miles. States vary and it depends on things like number of lanes, nightime/daytime, etc.

get all the traffic calmed down before it reaches the construction zone. that is the strategy. no surprises.

[Tervuren]

Originally Posted by drkshdw

Maybe at 2am when there's only a few cars on the road.

If you've got 3 car lengths between you and the car in front of you (provided you are not in rush hour traffic) and someone zipper merges in between, you both now only have 1 car length between each of you. In some parts of the country, that will get you pulled over for 'following too closely'. The only solution is to slow down until the car in front of you is safely far enough ahead to continue. Do that a few times and next thing you know, both lanes are stopped to allow everyone to get up to speed with safe enough distances between them.

Again, the zipper merge is great in theory and on paper but in real life, it just doesn't work like that. You can't take bumper to bumper traffic in two lanes and make them squeeze into one without delay.

Eh, the construction zone often drops the speed limit.

So if you look at how close you are following by time rather than distance things work out.

[pitargue]

Zipper merge? I guess that makes sense when uncultured swine have no clue when I'm yelling, in my best George Costanza voice, "Lipizzaner Stallions!!!"

[john70t]

Originally Posted by vash

get all the traffic calmed down before it reaches the construction zone. that is the strategy. no surprises.

I was driving I-75 south a few years ago.

At the end of a long day in Cincinnati they had four lanes merge into one on a Sunday.
It took about 2.5 hours to get through, that because people would not yield and pushed ahead. Jerks.
The semi drivers started blocking multiple lanes and restoring order.
There were a couple workers walking around the work zone but that was it. Three lanes could have been kept open.
The highway opened back up to 4 lanes and everyone did 90mph.

Then 5 miles later the exact same thing happened. Four into one.
Another 2.5 hour chaos cluster.

They should have just kept it one single lane the entire time. Keep the flow.
Something is better than nothing.
Even grandma doing ten below in her prius holding up the road would have been a blessing.

[RSBob]

Originally Posted by svandamme

Merging at the end . Zipper is mandatory by law here because it reduces tjam length.

If everybody sticks to his lane till the end. And does not leave gaps for others to merge to soon. Every body will get through it a the fairest fastest way.

Anything else is worse. Computer model
And real world model proven.

Borrowed a text book from a traffic engineer since I have always been interested in strategies to smooth traffic flow. What is cited above also appears in the text book. Creating a long single line starts a slinky effect when people slow and or stop and start times get longer and longer. Using both lanes and zippering at the end is far more efficient it reduces the slinky stop and go thing.

[stomachmonkey]

Originally Posted by RSBob

Borrowed a text book from a traffic engineer since I have always been interested in strategies to smooth traffic flow. What is cited above also appears in the text book. Creating a long single line starts a slinky effect when people slow and or stop and start times get longer and longer. Using both lanes and zippering at the end is far more efficient it reduces the slinky stop and go thing.

Ever drive along a highway and hit s spot of traffic that suddenly clears with no obvious condition on the other side that could have caused it?

That is caused by brakechecking tailgaters.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=goVjVVaLe10

https://youtu.be/Suugn-p5C1M

[widgeon13]

I think "driving etiquette" is an oxymoron these days.