Engine building geek question:

[speeder]

I'm assembling another Ford 7.3 Power Stroke diesel engine for my work truck and having a conundrum; the spec for head bolt torque is 95 lbs. on lightly oiled threads in 3 stages, 65/85/95 lbs.

When it was time to bolt down the heads over the weekend, I could not find my little old fashioned oil can, so I poured some oil into the cap of an oil bottle and just dipped the bolt ends in oil before inserting them in bolt holes. Of course, everything was pristine clean, bolts/block/heads. I guess I thought that the oil on the ends would be forced up the threads and coat all threads as bolts went in. That did not happen and when I did the final torque, (95 lbs.), it was very apparent that I had hit dry threads by the increased friction and resistance to initial tightening.

The correct protocol is to completely wet the threads w motor oil and let it drip off, hence "lightly oiled." Even though the early 7.3s had a factory spec of 85 lbs., I'm really OCD about engine assembly and this is bugging me. I was thinking about removing each bolt one at a time and re-oiling, then re-torquing. There are 18 bolts on each head.

#1) Am I worried about nothing? #2) Any reason NOT to do what I'm considering?

TIA.

[A930Rocket]

It would suck, but I’m leaning towards removing all bolts and reinstalling them per the manual. That would mean new head gaskets as well.

Otherwise, it would always be on my mind if I was going to have a problem down the road.

[David]

We had a Loctite rep give a presentation years ago showing proper use. He had a clear plexiglass block with a threaded blind hole. He put loctite on a bolt and threaded it into the hole. Virtually no loctite entered the hole since the air already in the hole kept it out. Lesson was: put the loctite or oil into the hole and not on the fastener.

[stomachmonkey]

Are they the original head bolts?

Aren't they torque to yield?

[fastfredracing]

Did you oil under the head of the bolt or washer?

[fastfredracing]

Also, I think you are worried about nothing. You do not hear of 7.3' spitting out their head gaskets very often .

[NY65912]

I just spoke with a certified tech that has done dozens of 7.3s.

He said that taking 1 bolt at a time is OK to do, he would. But, that you would problably be OK if you did not.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Are they the original head bolts?

Aren't they torque to yield?

Yes and no.

As I stated, they are torque-to-number, not TTY.

[Steve Carlton]

I like what NY65912 said, but I’m certainly no expert. I’d be curious what “lightly oiled” really means. To me dipped and dripped sounds like too much.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

Did you oil under the head of the bolt or washer?

No, but would not be a bad idea. These bolts do not have washers, they are just shoulder bolts. The spec is for lightly oiled threads and it’s always worked well on final torque until now.

Originally Posted by A930Rocket

It would suck, but I’m leaning towards removing all bolts and reinstalling them per the manual. That would mean new head gaskets as well.

Otherwise, it would always be on my mind if I was going to have a problem down the road.

If I thought that the torque was way off, I’d be with you. Head gaskets are not that expensive. The thing is, everything was fine up through the 85 lb. sequence, so they are all close. I’m just trying to be precise, as we all should w engine assembly.

Originally Posted by David

We had a Loctite rep give a presentation years ago showing proper use. He had a clear plexiglass block with a threaded blind hole. He put loctite on a bolt and threaded it into the hole. Virtually no loctite entered the hole since the air already in the hole kept it out. Lesson was: put the loctite or oil into the hole and not on the fastener.

Completely understand this but the “lightly oiled threads” means that the threads are just wet w oil going in. You would not want excessive oil in hole, that could really change torque accuracy.

Originally Posted by fastfredracing

Also, I think you are worried about nothing. You do not hear of 7.3' spitting out their head gaskets very often .

True. It’s an over-engineered situation if there ever was. 18 large bolts holding down a 100 lb. slab of iron.

Originally Posted by NY65912

I just spoke with a certified tech that has done dozens of 7.3s.

He said that taking 1 bolt at a time is OK to do, he would. But, that you would problably be OK if you did not.

Thanks a lot. I know that removing one at a time doesn’t change anything wrt clamping of the other 17 and probably will for peace of mind. Thanks, all.

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Steve Carlton

I like what NY65912 said, but I’m certainly no expert. I’d be curious what “lightly oiled” really means. To me dipped and dripped sounds like too much.

I used to think it meant using light oil, (like 3-in-1), then I read that they want engine oil on threads but only the minimal amount. If you squirt some on the threads from an oil can w bolt horizontal, the oil runs around the bolt and it’s just right. Nothing should be dripping off when you install them.

A little oil on the back of bolt heads is not called for but seems like a good idea. The whole thing is about not having additional friction screwing up the torque measurement.

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by speeder

I used to think it meant using light oil, (like 3-in-1), then I read that they want engine oil on threads but only the minimal amount. If you squirt some on the threads from an oil can w bolt horizontal, the oil runs around the bolt and it’s just right. Nothing should be dripping off when you install them.

A little oil on the back of bolt heads is not called for but seems like a good idea. The whole thing is about not having additional friction screwing up the torque measurement.

That's the crux of the matter. What do they say about re-torquing after initial break in? In my mind I would think the heat cycle would help out a lot in this scenario to get the bolts spot on.

[NY65912]

My friend mentioned that the bolts will not have to be re-torqued after break in if the steps below are followed.


"Take out 1 bolt at a time in the correct sequence

4 steps:

On new gasket with lightly oiled New Bolts:

65 ft lbs
90 ft lbs
110 ft lbs
110 ft lbs again

No need for re-torque."

[speeder]

Originally Posted by Zeke

[/B]

That's the crux of the matter. What do they say about re-torquing after initial break in? In my mind I would think the heat cycle would help out a lot in this scenario to get the bolts spot on.

While that is called for on certain engines, not this one. They torque them down once at the factory and then tow heavy for many hundreds of thousands of miles. They are an over-built Diesel engine and the only way to shorten their life is through improper maintenance, which happens a lot. The last couple I’ve rebuilt were “dusted” from people installing a K&N or similar “cold air intake” that allows too much dirt into the intake and destroys the seal between rings and cylinders. It’s very common.

If you ever buy a used one, walk away from anything that has an aftermarket intake and/or evidence of dirt getting past the air filter. Just unscrew the big rubber tube betweeen air cleaner and turbo, it should be as clean as an operating room inside.

[fastfredracing]

If you are thinking about re oiling them, I believe it is common practice to remove one head bolt at a time, when changing over to ARP studs. I know of several guys who have done it this way, without ever removing the head . These were all on trucks that got the wick turned way up after wards, and I know of no failures .

[john70t]

Originally Posted by stomachmonkey

Are they the original head bolts?

Aren't they torque to yield?

^^^

[speeder]

Originally Posted by NY65912

My friend mentioned that the bolts will not have to be re-torqued after break in if the steps below are followed.


"Take out 1 bolt at a time in the correct sequence

4 steps:

On new gasket with lightly oiled New Bolts:

65 ft lbs
90 ft lbs
110 ft lbs
110 ft lbs again

No need for re-torque."

For 7.3 engines, those are incorrect numbers. The final torque is 95 lbs. and the earlier engines, (‘95-‘97), called for 105, IIRC. I was remembering wrong in post above, the number went down, not up during the production run of the 7.3.

110 lbs. would be significantly higher than factory spec for my engine, which is stock.

Factory shop manual:

[speeder]

And sure enough, it does say to oil the bolt flanges. Missed that previously.

[NY65912]

I'll have to give him a talking to about this. I guessed that it was a 2000.

Funny part is he works for Ford. Maybe that says something

Sorry if this was misleading. Last time I ask him for advice!

[speeder]

I would not be that hard on him. Those master techs have so much info floating around in their heads that it's impossible to remember everything, especially numbers.

Always check the book, (and the TSBs if they supersede).