Starting A Diesel Tractor With A Shot Gun Shell

[gshase]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb0-br7hTw0

Just found this cool

[id10t]

Just like some old air planes had starter charges to get the pistons moving - 2 or 4 gauge blanks IIRC

[wayner]

[LWJ]

Grandpa left an international dozer (TD-9 ???) that starts on gas. Once running, kick to diesel for power.

It is just weird.

[Bill Douglas]

I remember those glow plugs, or some term like that. It heated the diesel to make it more combustable???

[Don Ro]

Back in the old days they'd let Diesels idle over night.
Anyone know why? Hard to start in the AM?

[unclebilly]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

Back in the old days they'd let Diesels idle over night.
Anyone know why? Hard to start in the AM?

In places outside of Arizona, it gets below -40. Old diesels with old oil technology wouldn’t start in these temperatures. Even if they did start, the old school 30 and 40 wt oil they had back in the day wouldn’t circulate at these temps.

It was felt that it was easier on the engine and less costly to just let them idle over night.

Of course with today’s DEF systems, excessive idling is a no-no because you need engine heat to keep the catalysts hot.

[wayne robson]

If you have never sat in a 1973 Citroen SM front seat,
ask the owner if you can experiance the most comfortable
there in a car--- i did just that couple of weeks ago,and i had to agree.
I have owned every thing from Cadillacs to minis. first time in a SM.

[Toast54]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

Back in the old days they'd let Diesels idle over night.
Anyone know why? Hard to start in the AM?

A lot of truckers I knew in the 60's and 70's would carry galvanized tubs, charcoal and fluid and use this setup to keep the oil warm in cold climates for easier starts

[asphaltgambler]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Lot's of reasons as the engine / combustion chamber technology just wasn't there yet. Almost none of the old over-the-road trucks and industrial / off road equipment had turbos, so they made their power with through displacement and long stroke.

Also, there was significant drag in the rotating assy; largely due to piston design with extra long skirts. So long in fact, they employed additional oil and compression rings on the skirt. That idea was to stabilize the piston in the bore because of the very long stroke and to promote very low piston / ring / cylinder bore wear over 100's of thousands of miles ( or hours).

The injector pressure at the nozzle was very low compared to today's engines. So you have a combination of factors that worked against cold weather starting and performance:

You're trying to crank over a very large displacement engine working against the leverage of a very long stroke, significant rotational drag, poor combustion at cranking speeds, oils that would turn to syrup in cold weather.

Engine starters that consumed a lot of energy but barely had the torque needed, old battery technology, etc.

I can remember as a kid - the family next to us had an old Caterpillar crawler they'd use on the farm to do heavy work. In the winter they would build a fire using wood / sticks under the belly pan of the engine. Then crank it using a gasoline 'pony' engine that was incorporated from the factory mounted in the rear on the engine.

Once the fire deemed hot enough, you started the pony engine through an electric starter, let it run and warm up. Once it was warm, you'd go full throttle on the pony engine and engage the clutch to crank the engine with the fuel off. After @1 min or so when the cranking speed sounded good enough, you'd turn on the fuel with the throttle lever about 1/3 way 'up' - if all went well it would 'lite' after belching black smoke.

It was a manly task back then......................

[Zeke]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^Lot's of reasons as the engine / combustion chamber technology just wasn't there yet. Almost none of the old over-the-road trucks and industrial / off road equipment had turbos, so they made their power with through displacement and long stroke.

Also, there was significant drag in the rotating assy; largely due to piston design with extra long skirts. So long in fact, they employed additional oil and compression rings on the skirt. That idea was to stabilize the piston in the bore because of the very long stroke and to promote very low piston / ring / cylinder bore wear over 100's of thousands of miles ( or hours).

The injector pressure at the nozzle was very low compared to today's engines. So you have a combination of factors that worked against cold weather starting and performance:

You're trying to crank over a very large displacement engine working against the leverage of a very long stroke, significant rotational drag, poor combustion at cranking speeds, oils that would turn to syrup in cold weather.

Engine starters that consumed a lot of energy but barely had the torque needed, old battery technology, etc.

I can remember as a kid - the family next to us had an old Caterpillar crawler they'd use on the farm to do heavy work. In the winter they would build a fire using wood / sticks under the belly pan of the engine. Then crank it using a gasoline 'pony' engine that was incorporated from the factory mounted in the rear on the engine.

Once the fire deemed hot enough, you started the pony engine through an electric starter, let it run and warm up. Once it was warm, you'd go full throttle on the pony engine and engage the clutch to crank the engine with the fuel off. After @1 min or so when the cranking speed sounded good enough, you'd turn on the fuel with the throttle lever about 1/3 way 'up' - if all went well it would 'lite' after belching black smoke.

It was a manly task back then......................

I witnessed this process a few times as a kid on my grandfather's farm near Bakersfield. But the gas pony 2 cylinder was a rope pull.

Then I got to drive it!!!

[sand_man]

Originally Posted by wayner

This was the very first thing I thought of.

[wayner]

i wonder what all that birdshot does to the top of the piston?

[flipper35]

Originally Posted by Don Ro

Back in the old days they'd let Diesels idle over night.
Anyone know why? Hard to start in the AM?

I have a friend in Alaska and she said they leave the Cat powered bulldozer running all winter long, otherwise they would no be able to use it until springtime.

[GH85Carrera]

My dad told me about a trip he had to make to Thule Air Base, Greenland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thule_Air_Base

They landed and an big ice storm came in. They were grounded overnight and no room in the hangars. I don't remember if he was flying the C-54 or a C-124, but he was the pilot.

He said before going they always told the new guys that there was a naked woman behind every tree.



The next morning it was of course crazy cold. They hand turned the props some just to get them moving. It was an explosive charge to start it. The first attempt was a total failure. They tried a few times and had to change all the spark plugs. That went on until it was down to the the last set of plugs and the last charge. The poor mechanics were replacing plugs in the miserable cold. The engine finally started and that gave them the power to get the rest going.

He made several trips to Thule Air Base, and finally was offered a new assignment. Hawaii was on the list. Bingo, we moved to Hawaii back before it was a state.

[legion]

Originally Posted by wayner

i wonder what all that birdshot does to the top of the piston?

Not much, being a beefy diesel. But that's why they can't shut them off: the lead solidifies and seizes the piston.

[Scott Douglas]

I worked on a vineyard in Mendocino County that my dad helped get started. It had a D2 Cat that we used to spray the vines. My dad had to get the D2 in working condition when he first started there. He got in touch with Caterpillar and gave them the serial numbers etc off the D2. They actually made copies of the hand drawn blue prints of it and sent them to him. It was a 1932 model. It had an electric start gas pony engine to start the diesel.
I put in many an hour on that tractor in my time up there. It was good training as they eventually ended up getting a D4 Cat. That thing would haul a$$ in top gear. You could dig yourself into a hole pretty quickly with the 9ft blade it had too. I gained a new appreciation for the skill of the heavy equipment operators we used to see building the roads when we were out on summer vacation.

[Gogar]

i'm just glad at least one person in the video was wearing overalls

[widebody911]

It had an electric start gas pony engine to start the diesel.

One of my summer jobs in high school was operating an old Cat with a rope-start pony engine to start the diesel engine.

[masraum]

This is the coolest thread ever, between the tractor, movie footage of the plane, and a couple of the other stories including the several mentions of the pony engine starter.