3.6 exhaust - opinions sought

[ischmitz]

SK's thread titled Exhaust finished got me thinking again about my exhaust options for the 3.6 conversion. So far I do have the 993 headers attached to the 964 motor. I also have received a stock 2in-1out banana style muffler from a fellow board member.

But with all that talk about flowmaster and other generic exhaust options discussed in SK's threat I am wondering what folks would recommend for a better flowing setup for the 964motor-993HE combination. I don't need cats but an oxy sensor provision. I was thinking:

a) use the 2-in 1out banana-style muffler
a) modify the 2in-1out to dual out
b) run supertraps off the 993 HE flanges pointing out to the sides ala MikeZ
c) use a generic 2in 2out flowmaster or Dynomax
d) A quiet boom had an insteresting setup with his cross pipe

Help me to find a free-flowing solution that makes itself heard when I step on it and doesnt' cost an arm and a leg.

Ingo

[MIK911]

For 3.6 993 set-up, you gotta check out the RSR muffler. These are factory 993 mufflers modified by Robin Sun, and the result is awesome!! Check it out on P-car.com or search the 993 board on Rennlist, and you'll hear nothing but raves 'bout this muffler. It makes a stock 993 muffler sound very similar to the factory option "Motor Sound Package". Quiet at idle, raspy growl midrange, and wailing high up.
I'm looking to find a similar sound out of my 3.2, but haven't been successful.

Good luck
Mike

[ischmitz]

Mike,

I am working on a 3.6 conversion into an early car. My layout will be similar to a 74 dual-in style. I just need to find a nice pot (muffler) that takes the 993 heat exchanger outputs.

Ingo

[Kevin Stewart]

You guys with the 993 heat exchangers should think about using a stock cat, it has the o2 sensor in the right place and i hear it is not to loud (no muffler just the cat), i ended up finding B&B headers for my conversion, also you should realize that the 1995 993 headers are different then the later ones, (the flanges for the exhaust) i have heard that the cross over pipe from a sc will bolt up, two cross over pipes 3 inches long add exhaust, i guess the later ones have a different collector, Kevin

[k9handler]

Ingo...what is Harald's perspective on this? I would shoot him an email and see what he has to say.

[AES]

Exhaust Thread 1

Exhaust Thread 2

Exhaust Thhread 3

Exhaust Thread 4

There are a bunch more Search under JackOlsen, widebody911, Bill Verburg, Moses, PBS911, rfix'n

[911nut]

If I were fabricating an exhaust system I'd use Coast Fabrication mufflers. Although they are spendy ($180 each) they are small enough that they will package well so that they can't be seen, unlike many Flowmaster installations.

[3.6 911]

For what it is worth I have TRG headers w/oxygen sensor that goes into a dual in/out flowmaster with resonator tips. The sound is good and the performance better. The only issue for me is heat. I'm in the process of building a 3.8 varioram engine and will most likely use the same set up until someone builds 1 7/8" heat exchangers.

[Embs]

For a 993 Varioram engine, I can personally tell you that the TRG headers with the slip fit Super crapp mufflers suck bad. No matter how tight you get the slip fit band clamp, there is still leakage/blowby from the mufflers to the point it makes your headers black. (email me for pics) The drone from these headers is also miserable, unless of course your into that much noise.

Also, my TRG headers had no provision for the REQUIRED O2 sensor for the 993 engine. The TRG headers according to Steve Weiner of Rennsport Systems are a waste of money.

The most economical thing to do for a 993 engine is to use the stock 993 exchangers and the stock mix chamber/cat combo.

Harald can fix you up with these components.

You can weld elbows/tips on to the end of each cat and your done. You have an O2 sensor provision and you can pass emissions. Also, you can have heat. See the pic below:

[rfix'n]

Todd, have you done this or heard this? Seems like it would be very loud with no muffler. It does solve the emissions dilema and is a cheaper / easier solution. Just curious about the decibal level.

[JonT]

I currently have this setup with my 3.6. It is quite loud--I have not measured db but would guess the level of loudness to be similar to a Mustang/Camaro. It is a very deep rumble/burble and quite menacing sounding when driven hard. There is some resonance in the cabin with all the windows shut but sounds great with the top off and windows open--99% of my driving.

[Embs]

Originally posted by rfix'n
Todd, have you done this or heard this? Seems like it would be very loud with no muffler. It does solve the emissions dilema and is a cheaper / easier solution. Just curious about the decibal level.

I have heard two other cars with the same set up. They are certainly louder than stock but quieter than the TRG/Super Crap setup that is currently on my car.

I have purchased the system from Harald (speedster94) and will be installing it as soon as it arrives.

It will also provide a much better look, the TRG headers and Super crapps hang really low, to the point the mufflers drag in some parking lot entrances.

[Embs]

Originally posted by JonT
I currently have this setup with my 3.6. It is quite loud--I have not measured db but would guess the level of loudness to be similar to a Mustang/Camaro.

Do you have any .Wav sound files you could post so people can hear this set-up? I will try to post a sound file of the current header set-up on my car.

Thanks,

[3.6 911]

The TRG headers into the flowmaster dual in/out are quieter than the 993 set up that is mentioned above. I have had my car next to another with the 993 set up and mine can not be heard.
As for emissions, my car went right through Maryland's emissions inspection without a bit of trouble even without the cat. (Maryland's emission tests are the most difficult on the east coast.)
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion regarding quality but my TRG headers don't have any trouble with leakage or soot around the slip fitting.

[ischmitz]

I am leaning towards a 2in-xout setup with the 993 heat exchangers as shown on steve weiners page. Just have to figure whether I use a:

Dynomax Ultraflow (WLK-17276 stainless steel, 165$)
Flowmaster 80 series (FLO-42582, steel, 96$)
OEM banana 2in (free)
OEM banana 2in modified for dual-out (50$ for work?)

All of the above will require some welding (100$) by a local muffler shop to attach to the heat exchangers.

I would be curious about the sound differences of the flowmaster, dynomax, and OEM as singe or dual-out.

Ingo

[Kevin Stewart]

You guys should notice that heat is not a easy do with this set up, the 993 headers do not match anything 964, Kevin

[Embs]

Originally posted by 3.6 911
The TRG headers into the flowmaster dual in/out are quieter than the 993 set up that is mentioned above. I have had my car next to another with the 993 set up and mine can not be heard.
As for emissions, my car went right through Maryland's emissions inspection without a bit of trouble even without the cat. (Maryland's emission tests are the most difficult on the east coast.)
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion regarding quality but my TRG headers don't have any trouble with leakage or soot around the slip fitting.

BLAH, BLAH.................BLAH, BLAH, BLAH

[3.6 911]

Hey todd, why are you such a putz? If someone doesn't agree with you, you immediately poo, poo what they have to say. As I understand it this is a forum for the exchange of ideas and expressing what others have done. All I've done is express my personal experiences the same as you. Every post you make you offer an opinion. Why can't others?

[pbs911]

Ingo, if you are going for sound, I would start with the two in one out. If it proves to be too subtle you can have an extra opening on the other side. The second opeing can be as small as 1" or may match the first. You can adjust the the size of the second opening by stating small and going larger until you reach the db level you want. Of course the tips would be the same size for esthetic purposes.

The easiest looks like it will be the 993 cat/mixing chamber set up. Bolt on.

I'm going with custom welding to a OEM two-in-two out Sport Muffler. It is loud, and I imagine louder than the 993 cat only set up. But I really like the sound, the look and using a muffler desinged by Porsche. To amke the connection I am also going to see if someone can weld up 2 pipes that will connect the 993 exhaust to the OEM muffler inlets to avoid having to cut up the muffler. This would allow the muffler to be changed w/o necessitating more custom welding to a second muffler.

[Bill Verburg]

Ingo, I would go w/ what you have. if you don't like it you can switch it out later. The 993 headers bolted up to a stock bannana is a sort of elegant solution. if you want more noise modify it to dual out. The heat isn't an issue, you just need some longer pieces of CAT/SCAT tube to plumb the heat ducts.

That said I have the Fabspeed version of the Flowmaster. It sound great, yet is not overbearing at highway speeds. It is very aggressive sounding in general. Here are a couple of clips

Sound byte 1 done by placing a laptop on the center line of the car ~3ft back, any distortion is purely an artifact of an over driven mike.

Sound byte 2 ditto the recording method