3.6 headers revisited

[Kevin Stewart]

Lets talk mass confusion when it comes to the exhaust on a 3.6 conversion, im thinking of ordering headers and muffler from either ghl or BB, do i order sc or c2, i know they will do the c2 in for heat and sc out, will the ghl header interfear with the oil tank? SSI must have taken the month off, and the 993 headers are an option, i just dont want to get into the fabrication at this time, I need to get this project finished so i can get my other car done before march 10th, I would like to find out if ssi has done the 3.6 exchanger yet, Pictures and ideas are appreciated, I know, I know we keep visiting this, we dont have the smog test here, but I just cant get into the super traps hanging out the back, I think fabing up a muffler to fit will not be a problem, just the exchangers, if I buy headers for just a few hundred more they will sell you a complete system, to many options, Kevin

[Joe Bob]

You need to tell them it's a 3.6 going into a SC with a 915 trans. The 964 HE's will hit the clutch arm.....

SSI is still a little ways away on a 3.6 set of HEs, but you can use the 3.2 ones....little smaller is not a bad thing, for low end grunt but will effect the top end.....

[dean]

I think that 993 heatexchangers fit, but I am not positive. Then you could get a couple of u-bends and a muffler and fab something up.

[Kevin Stewart]

Blown the problem with the 993 header you have to cut the mounting flange turn it and reweld it may not be what i want to do, Kevin

[pbs911]

If you want heat, B&B are probably the way to go. Personally I would get a muffler fabed to work with the system. GHL will "fit" but it appears that they are not designed with HP/torque in mind. I also think the GHL are too small in diameter unless specially ordered. Be sure to order 964 heater in and SC heater out.

I'll be going with the B&B unless SSI comes out with theirs. I sent SSI several emails but each came back undeliverable.

[Kevin Stewart]

pbs911 the motor i have was in a carrera for a week, they did use the stock heat exchangers, the cross over pipe was altered, i will say that i really dont think that there is that much loss of power that i will see because i am not gonna track it, im really not sure 15 hp is worth it, one of my wholesaler is looking into a german made header that is supposed to be just as good but not as expensive, the question to you is, is 15hp worth 2 grand? Over the weekend I plan to make up my mind even if I put the c2 exchangers back on temporarly, Kevin

[911nut]

On the Rennsport Systems website there's a picture of a 3.6 with modified stock heat exchangers feeding a modified 2-in, 1-out muffler.

Here's the link: http://rennsportsystems.com/engines%203.6-3.8.html

It wouldn't be easy to do but it's a possible alternative.

[Joe Bob]

SSI.....try brad@all914.com they are going thru a management change...

[pbs911]

the question to you is, is 15hp worth 2 grand?

I have to admit, for me the $$ spent on the headers/exhaust issue in the 3.6 conversion is the most difficult to swallow. For me I am faced with the smog inspections so a second exhaust system that looks stock is necessary. I plan on the SC Carrera OEM exhaust and will probably wait until the SSI exhaust comes out. I am hoping the 3.6 SSI will be priced similarily to the 3.2 and earlier models. Unfortunately, the Porsche tax on the exhaust system must be paid if you want to get every bit of HP out of the motor. If you plan on changing the internals later on, such as cams, the exhaust will be necessary.

[Kevin Stewart]

pbs911 I am talking with some one on an old exhaust right now, if I dont purchase it I will be using the stock heat exchangers from the 3.6 motor, the 3.6 exhaust I have was altered to work, you can have someone rework the pipe for you or?, I have just been looking at HP increase's, at this time i just cant justify the price, thats like $133 dollars a HP, I am sure this exhaust issue has kept several people from doing this conversion, Kevin

[JonT]

the 993 heat exchangers and cat is the cheapest way to go. And it's very free flow--its obnoxiously loud (and mean sounding--deep throaty burble) but I like it. Heat exchangers need to be modified (it can be done) but can be picked up for $250 and the cat can be had for the same amount. Weld some $40 tips on and you've got a $600 or so exhaust system that rocks.

[Bill Verburg]

I spoke w/ Joel Reiser, Bruce Anderson and a number of other engine builders this summer about the 3.6 exhaust issue. Their thoughts agree w/ what I have seen after numerous dyno runs on various 993/964 this summer.

For stock cams the exhaust is a non issue in that it really doesn't make that much difference. On a transplant there is another issue ie the clutch lever arm. For stock cams SSI will be better down low, B&B better up high, SC/Carrera I have no experience w/ but Jack Olsen may wish to further comment here.

993 exhaust on a 964 need to have the passenger side flanges cut and rewelded after a 90&deg rotation, but will work equally as well as any of the above.

Both 964 and 993 respond really well(I can't emphasize this enough!!!) to cam and intake tract mods. IFF these mods are done will the tuning effects of SSI or B&B headers really help.

GHL is just an overpriced version of the 993 header, use it at your discretion. neither is very helpful when happier cams are used. Their short primaries shift torque too far up the rev range.

If neither heat nor $$ is an issue S-Car-Go long tube headers are generally thought to be a bit more effective than 1 3/4" B&B's

If emissions inspections are an issue go with SC/Carrera, Carrera has a larger volume and is preferable.

[Tinker]

Bill,

What kind of cams due you recommend for the 964/993 motors?

I have run Burch headers on a 3.6, in a 72, since 95. Tweeks sells them for around $350(?). Fit fine in early cars, but with a few off tracks, they tend to get some dents. You can bolt on the dual inlet muffler of your choice or straight megaphones. Only draw back is no heat, which isn't too bad.....until you drive home from Laguna Seca when its snowing on the grapevine.......cold!!!!!!!

Tinker

[Embs]

Kevin,

I am getting some modified 993 exchangers from Harald with the Required O2 bung. The TRG headers that came with the engine may have been okay for the track, but they generate a huge amount of heat when your stopped and considering how close they are to the engine, it wasn't a good thing.

[Kevin Stewart]

embs that oil line sure is close to the header, Kevin

[Embs]

Originally posted by Kevin Stewart
embs that oil line sure is close to the header, Kevin

Yes, I had a lot of issues like that but I am knocking them out as finances and time allow.

[Bill Verburg]

Tinker,

For street use the 993SS cams from Webcam are really nice.

The down side is that if max revs are raised the rod bolts need updating to ARP or Raceware. Then the while we're in here's hit, headstuds, valve guides, valve springs, spring retainers, a little bit of milled compression etc. But guaranteed to be worth it. An easy , torquey 270 wheel hp is to be had w/ a custom chip.

IF you still have a little extra cash, 51.5mm factory(Na cooled for liteness) or 52mm ss aftermarket intake valves and matching exhausts w/ polished ports are good for another 20(maybe more depending on the synergey w/ the exhaust)

[jobenz]

For all you 3.6 conversion guys, i have a brand new pair of thick flange ssi heat exchangers,(again brand new) that the ports were opened up by john @ssi several mm to help the 3.6 breath a little better. i have sold my project rsr and no longer need them. $900.00 and i'll pick up the ups freight & insurance. surely with all the discussion i'm reading about what to do with your exhaust issues, this is not a bad way to go.
lets use that christmas money you all recieved for your 3.6 projects,
thanks, Joe