Third engine ID number stamped on case
 

What is the stamped number under the engine type designation? In mine (type 901/14) it is 13393
Is this the engine builder? Or just some random number to make people guess?

Early morning bump.

That # tells you what your motor is, like my 66 has 901-01 it is a solex motor(solex cams) a 901-2 is a S motor (S cams) 901-06 is a 130 hp 67 Motor probbly T cams And so on and so forth, My 911 shop manuel has those codes in them and so does Brad Andersons Book

Maybe i was not clear, i am talking about the number under the type designation. i know that 901/14 is a 68 type L motor.
What is this other number (13393) stamped below?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1214593533.jpg
This image provided by Bob Fleming shows the three engine #'s seen on the 2.0 motors. The engine serial # is bounded by stars, the engine type # is 901/xx, and the engine build # runs from 1 to about 30000.
The build # is simply the build sequence number from the engine shop. For the early 901/01 engines it was 100 less than the serial # since the production engine numbers started at 900101. As new engine types were added there was no relationship to the engine serial #. Here is some of the the data I have collected:
901/01 900128 28
901/01 900129 29
901/01 900236 136
901/01 900661 561
901/01 900685 585
901/01 901109 1009
901/01 901363 1263
901/01 901449 1349
901/01 901467 1367
901/01 901954 1854
901/01 902016 1916
901/01 902409 2309
901/01 902461 2361
901/01 902562 2462
901/01 902589 2489
901/01 902628 2528
901/01 903022 2922
901/01 903154 3054
901/01 903256 3156
901/02 960151 3584
901/20 906106 3629
901/05 907041 3879
901/05 907059 3900
901/20 906137 3979
901/05 907137 3984
901/05 907183 4036
901/05 907203 4056
901/05 907316 4172
901/05 907540 4405
901/05 907609 4474
901/05 907849 4714
901/05 908164 5032
901/05 909136 5189
901/05 909445 5703
901/02 960306 5873
901/02 960375 5998
901/02 960377 6010
901/02 960407 6052
901/05 909857 6099
901/02 960492 6225
901/05 909914 6697
901/02 960841 6821
901/02 960913 6895
901/02 960927 6925
901/02 961030 7150
901/02 961095 7240
901/06 ______ 7269
901/02 961208 7464
901/06 911305 7558
901/02 961390 7782
901/02 961687 8316
901/06 911718 8504
901/02 961942 8744
901/02 962082 8987
901/06 911951 9044
901/02 4080029 9272
901/06 3080031 9277
901/02 4080111 9423
901/02 _______ 9525
901/03 2080005 9547
901/14 3280123 9874
901/07 3180047 9906
901/14 3280234 10234
901/17 _______ 10584
901/06 _______ 10743
901/02 4080430 10923
901/14 3280376 10958
901/14 3280442 11233
901/14 3280461 11397
901/14 3280529 11677
901/03 2080552 11710
901/14 3280620 12050
901/14 3280670 12194
901/14 3280822 12976
901/02 4080919 12986
901/17 3380223 13016
901/02 4080941 13108
901/14 3280920 13393
901/02 4081110 13965
901/17 3380303 14124
901/02 4081172 14233
901/14 3281356 15372
901/06 _______ 15373
901/02 4081419 15415
901/02 4081449 15552
901/14 _______ 15841
901/17 3380402 16015
901/10 6390001 16250
901/10 6390050 16339
901/10 6390067 16410
901/16 6195052 16416
901/16 _______ 18638
901/16 6195563 19205
901/09 _______ 19692
901/16 6195715 19789
901/16 6195728 19821
901/03 6190553 19846
901/10 6391067 20928
901/09 6291062 21168
901/09 6291092 21324
901/10 6391343 22398
901/10 6391344 22399
901/10 6391515 23256
901/10 6392102 26274

Everyone that has a 2.0 motor with any 901/xx engine type is encouraged to contribute their combination of 3 codes to my list. We can learn a lot about how these engines were built. It seems to apply until the end of 1969 model year, then it was discontinued.

Dave

Made a correction. Still looking for additional data. Surely a few members have a 2 liter they can check.

I had 901/02 Ser. #960841 and it had the 4 digits "6821" stamped under the type number. I have never been able to figure out what the relationship was of those 4 digits to anything else, and no one on the Early 911S Registry has come up with anything solid about them when it has been discussed there.

http://members.rennlist.com/tweedt/my67typeno.jpg

http://members.rennlist.com/tweedt/my67engserial.jpg

TT

Some additional data, many thanks to the members sending in this info:

Added to list above

Another data point from a car I looked at yesterday:

901/14 3281356 15372

This engine is residing in a '70T, so if the owner of the '68 911L who needs it can be located, I can possibly facilitate a reunion.

Thanks Bill. Very interesting to note that this engine was built immediately before another in the list. Unfortunately, the other engine was seen on eBay back in 2006, and the serial # was not obtained. Two different engine types. My guess is that they were building several engine types at the same time so the engine types could be random in the build sequence.
901/14 3281356 15372
901/06 _______ 15373

I would be glad to provide my own information to this worthy endeavor, but the build number on the engine currently installed (and included in the purchase of) my vehicle does not match that of the CoA; C= 338--- 901/17 and engine is a 328--- 901/14.

Okay, I lied. Anyone who's seen my site knows that the engine is NOT installed at the moment but sitting on the basement floor. And if I could tap that thing for oil I'd be rich . . .

It does not matter to me if the engine does not match the car. The three numbers on the engine block are sufficient. I believe that all type 901/xx engines except those for the 914/6 and perhaps some of the racing engines have the engine build #. Does anyone have a type 911/xx engine with the build #?

In that case, here are the numbers:

901/14 3280461 11397

I looked up the numbers; apparently this is an extremely rare engine (hand built by The Doctor himself while single-handedly winning the 24 Heures, blindfolded). It's likely worth upwards of $100,000 which roughly translates to about 3 Euros.

Might make a good paperweight.

Some new data, many thanks to the members sending in this info:
901/10 6390050 16339
901/16 6195728 19821

drat, a double post, that is okay, I'll add yet another I found
901/02 961942 8744

BTW, I noticed in a post by Bill Noon that the build #'s for the type 901/10 engines starts @ 16250.
That seems reasonable, however I have to ask: is there is a source for such information?

A few more I found

Added to list above

I started a new thread over on the Early S Registry:

http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24913

That forum has a lot more of the owners of these engines, and I am keeping that list (in the first message) up to date. There is a lot of intersting information to be found in these numbers.

As I have always understood this number, it is an ‘internal sequential number’ that is related to the engine number.


The sequence of numbering the case halves during manufacture are:

The casting numbers and casting dates are cast-in-place during the casting process. The case halves do not necessarily have the same dates or revision (R-number).

During the machining, the ‘matching haves’ numbers are stamped in the top of each case half. These are typically 2 or 3-digits.

I think this ‘internal sequential number’ is stamped about the same time. This allows tracking of the case before it is assigned to be a ‘T’, ‘E’, ‘S’, ‘L’, etc. This internal sequential number seems to usually be higher than the last digits of the engine number. I’ll speculate the difference is cases that didn’t pass inspection.

There are examples where there is a large difference between the internal sequential number and the engine number. I’ll speculate these were re-worked cases that were cycled back into production.

The ‘engine number’ is probably assigned just prior to assembly. This is necessary because a ‘T’ and ‘S’ are assembled from different parts. The engine number also tells the model year, model Type (you can correlate with the type number 901/05, etc.), if for a Sportomatic, etc.

The 6-digit engine numbers used unique numbering sequence for telling the type. The 901/02 911S add an “S” at the end of the number. Starting with the ’68 model year (7-digit), the engine numbers have digit place for type purpose. This was continued with ’69 and later engines but with a slightly different system.

I don’t think there was an association to a specific VIN until it actually went in the car.


I don’t recall exactly who told me this. It probably was a sequence of factory people over the years.


Dave,

I Just inspected 901/01, *900129*, 29 and it has case half matching numbers 52. I’m pretty sure this is the 29th 901 engine built. I think the “1” in the fourth digit is to not seem like this engine was within the first few built. This engine still has the boss on the chain housings drilled down. The difference between 29 and 52 may be scrap, damaged during machining or ones used for testing.

Here are four more 901/05s:
901/05 907919 4784 (virgin with about 70K mi.)
901/05 909130 5183
901/05 909298 5414
901/05 909790 6429

Best,
Grady

Thanks Grady, your help is greatly appreciated. If I can respectfully disagree with some of your statements, I'll put forward my own theory to test.

The case half matching numbers were the first to be stamped, and probably only to good finished sets; that way the machine shop would have a record of how much good production they finished. That number I have only seen in 3 digits so far; any better data out there?

I think that once the engine was finished assembly, and passed testing it would receive the serial number, type # and build number at the same time. The matching halves number would be randomized at this point to some degree, but would generally follow as matching cases were converted into finished engines. Certainly they would have had to have been well ahead on machined cases before assembly. Besides, I'd bet the development cases would have the matching halves as well, thus accounting for over 30 of them.

The first PRODUCTION engine was 900101 and build # 1. All earlier serial engines were development engines and did not have build #'s; the only development engine I know of is 900032. So as production progressed, the type 901/01 engine serial #'s and build numbers were in lockstep (offset by 100) at least as high as build 3156. By build # 3629 both 901/02 and 901/20 engines were in production and contributing to the build #'s. However, large sequences of engines were built in lockstep after that. Consider the 379 engines between:

907540 4405
907919 4784

The fact that the serial #'s and build #'s are so often synchronized I think means that they are assigned together. I agree that serial # and VIN # are only generally related, just as the serial #'s and case matching #'s; they would only be so many cases or engines ahead of the next production stage, but out of that number, the pick would be almost random.

Relation of engine number with build number
 

Grady,

Here is the first page of the build book for the start of the 901/911 production, (it also appears in Tobias Aichele's book "Porsche 911 Engine History...")

The first engine in a production car was 900101 and the internal number was 1, further down on the list is 900129 internal number 29, engine 900161 is 61.

It was only thru Dave's observation and study did it come to light that the internal number is the sequence number that is stamped on each engine. The pattern and predictability is now evident.

Bob

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1233729545.jpg

Hey Grady, did you get my database? Not sure you are getting my emails.

The current state of my list. I generally keep the ESR list up to date:
http://www.early911sregistry.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24913
Type Serial # Build # Pair #
901/01 900101 1
901/01 900102 2
901/01 900103 3
901/01 900104 4
901/01 900105 5
901/01 900106 6
901/01 900107 7
901/01 900108 8
901/01 900109 9
901/01 900110 10
901/01 900111 11
901/01 900112 12
901/01 900113 13
901/01 900114 14
901/01 900116 16
901/01 900117 17
901/01 900118 18
901/01 900119 19
901/01 900120 20
901/01 900121 21
901/01 900122 22
901/01 900123 23
901/01 900124 24
901/01 900125 25
901/01 900126 26
901/01 900127 27
901/01 900128 28
901/01 900129 29 52
901/01 900130 30
901/01 900131 31
901/01 900132 32
901/01 900142 42
901/01 900157 57
901/01 900161 61
901/01 900227 127
901/01 900236 136
901/01 900279 179 274
901/01 900659 559
901/01 900661 561
901/01 900685 585 767
901/01 900812 712 963
901/01 900924 824
901/01 901068 968
901/01 901109 1009
901/01 901277 1177
901/01 901363 1263
901/01 901449 1349
901/01 901467 1367
901/01 901667 1567
901/01 901954 1854
901/01 902016 1916
901/01 902023 1923
901/01 902214 2114 516
901/01 902409 2309
901/01 902441 2341
901/01 902461 2361
901/01 902562 2462
901/01 902586 2486 950 1965/06 casting date
901/01 902589 2489
901/01 902628 2528
901/01 903022 2922
901/01 903154 3054
901/01 903245 3145
901/01 903256 3156 in sync
901/20 906101 ???? first of this type
901/01 903614 3515 out of sync
901/20 906106 3629
901/01 903812 3724
901/01 903868 3787 623
901/01 903910 ???? last of this type
901/05 907001 ???? first of this type
901/05 907041 3879
901/05 907059 3900
901/05 907112 3954
901/20 906137 3979
901/05 907137 3984
901/05 907151 3998
901/05 907183 4036
901/05 907203 4056
901/05 907248 4101
901/05 907294 4150
901/05 907300 4156
901/05 907316 4172 381
901/05 907406 4266
901/05 907540 4405
901/05 907576 4441
901/05 907609 4474 102
901/05 907812 4677
901/05 907849 4714
901/05 907919 4784
901/05 907966 4834
901/05 908021 4889
901/05 908053 4921
901/05 908164 5032
901/05 908185 5053 calculated
901/05 909001 5054 calculated
901/05 909018 5071
901/05 909051 5105
901/05 909130 5183
901/05 909133 5186
901/05 909136 5189
901/05 909247 5338
901/05 909298 5414
901/05 909363 5560
901/05 909374 5576 233
901/05 909416 5645
901/05 909433 5664
901/05 909445 5703
901/05 909452 5710
901/02 960241 5763
901/02 960306 5873
901/02 960375 5998
901/02 960377 6010
901/02 960389 6022
901/02 960407 6052
901/05 909857 6099
901/05 909663 6194
901/05 909666 6202
901/02 960492 6225
901/05 909790 6429
901/05 909884 6667
901/05 909914 6697
901/02 960841 6821
901/02 960903 6885
901/02 960913 6895
901/02 960927 6925
901/02 960981 7067
901/02 961030 7150 704 1966/08 casting date
901/02 961095 7240
901/06 911166 7260 907 1966/09 casting date
901/06 ------- 7269
901/06 911224 7377
901/02 961178 7383
901/02 961208 7464
901/02 961225 7484
901/06 911305 7558
901/02 961304 7635
901/02 961390 7782
901/02 961403 7811
901/06 ------- 7976
901/02 961521 8009
901/06 911568 8137 162
901/02 961611 8183
901/02 961687 8316 311
901/02 961737 8395
901/06 911718 8504
901/06 911812 8706
901/02 961942 8744
901/02 962082 8987
901/02 962089 9002
901/06 911951 9044
901/08 4180003 9238
901/02 4080029 9272
901/06 3080031 9277
901/02 4080075 9337
901/02 4080111 9423
901/02 -------- 9525
901/03 2080005 9547
901/14 3280123 9874 542
901/07 3180047 9906
901/14 3280234 10234
901/07 3180061 10388
901/17 3380015 10493
901/17 -------- 10584
901/06 -------- 10743
901/14 3280327 10744
901/23 5080006 10856
901/02 4080418 10876
901/02 4080430 10923
901/14 3280369 10944 816
901/14 3280376 10958
901/22 5080012 11089
901/14 3280442 11233 534
901/02 4080524 11396
901/14 3280461 11397
901/14 3280501 11439
901/10 4490002 11474 307 MG
901/03 2080526 11624
901/14 3280529 11677
901/03 2080552 11710
901/14 3280550 11773
901/14 3280620 12050 500 AL
901/14 3280642 12134 ??? MG
901/14 3280670 12194
901/14 3280691 12279
901/14 3280696 12289
901/14 3280758 12510
901/14 3280822 12976
901/02 4080919 12986
901/17 3380223 13016
901/02 4080941 13108
901/14 3280920 13393
901/02 4081110 13965
901/02 4081121 14080
901/17 3380303 14124
901/02 4081172 14233
901/06 6380504 14286
901/14 3281289 15062
901/14 3281356 15372
901/06 -------- 15373
901/02 4081419 15415
901/02 4081449 15552
901/02 4081479 15688
901/14 -------- 15841
901/14 3281463 15943
901/17 3380402 16015
901/10 6390001 16250
901/10 6390050 16339
901/11 6298022 16359 965
901/10 6390067 16410
901/16 6195052 16416
901/10 6390086 16513
901/10 6390165 16941
901/10 6390195 17028
901/10 6390222 17084
901/09 6290204 17144
901/10 6390486 18358
901/09 6198054 18538
901/19 6198055 18585
901/16 -------- 18638
901/16 6195469 18742
901/19 6198095 18743
901/16 6195563 19205
901/16 6195671 19624
901/09 -------- 19692
901/16 6195715 19789
901/09 6290803 19803
901/16 6195728 19821
901/03 6190553 19846
901/16 6195782 20059
901/16 6195959 20835
901/10 6391067 20928
901/10 6391074 20962
901/09 6291062 21168
901/09 6291092 21324
901/10 6391343 22398
901/10 6391344 22399
901/10 6391416 22731
901/10 6391515 23256
901/16 6196376 24472
901/11 6298554 25451
901/09 6292157 25896
901/10 6392050 26014
901/10 6392102 26274
901/16 6197299 -no #- 0214

fun, the case I just bought is also in the list: 901/06 911166 7260

Dave,
901/03 2680526 11624

Thanks, I'll periodically update this list in post 23.
If you can add the case pairing numbers or casting dates to any engine, please post the info.

901/06 911166 7260 case pairing nr: 907, man date 09-66

Dave,
FYI

Engine number 900141
Build number 41

Complete, unmolested with attached car:
VIN 300040
Everything is there, unmolsted!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1270938084.jpg


Resting quietly here.

Best,
Grady

Sleep well my prince, sleep well.....
Nice one Grady, that's you retirement account!

Hello You responded to my quest for the engine for Targa 500404. You asked me to post the other block data. So ask so shall you recieve.
case #s 864
901/05
5071
909018
Thank you Scott

Just a bump to see if anyone can add more data. See the latest list here:
Type 901/xx Engine Build #'s

early number match
 

Hi, here's another one that fits the number pattern.
Ex US car w. sunroof... now in Australia and converted to RHD.

Chassis 301606
Engine 901935
Eng.Production No. 1835
Engine type 901/01

Cheers
Bob

I have a 96 T engine I can add once I get home and look at it. I do remember its a 901/16 and *619xxxx I'll update hopefully tonight

Are you guy keeping a similar list for the later 911 engine's and are you trying to correlate the engine serials to the car serials?

Thanks. Yes I correlate serial #'s to the VIN's. I'm not too interested in the 1980 and up, but do add them when I find them. For most engines I like the cast-in case half numbers (xR revision #'s) with the serial # to track the case evolution. Most of the data I keep on the Early 911S forum since the posts can be edited for years instead of the limited time here.

Bump to see if anyone can contribute.

901/10 6390793 49767

Chassis is a '67 912 K so more or less irrelevant, unfortunately.

tranny is a 901 5 speed. next time it's up I'll get it for you.

Thanks, I think you will find the build # is 19767 since the # range only go to the 26xxx's, and this # fits my data well. Love to know the Karmann 912 VIN. Did you know that Karmann also had an independent serial on the body as well? That # is located under the access panel at the rear end of the tunnel; it may be hidden under carpet glue on the left side.

I'll play... My 68s are:

901/14 3281365 15412

901/02 4081144 14179

Thanks John.

6392032 901/10 25955