Neutralizing rust on paint
 

There is a 911 currently listed for sale on the pelican boards by Porsport. They have neutralized the rust by some process, thus doing away with the rust and leaving bare metal. Does anyone know what they might have used to accomplish this. I emailed them, but they won't respond. Thanks for any advice!!!

Sounds like a scammer

Ospho or a soulution of phosphoric acid was most likely used. FWIW most any acid will remove rust.

Older 911s, built before '75, will rust from the inside. You should post a picture so those who have de-rusted 911s can give you their opinion.

Neutralize rust my arss. BS.

Cut rust. Weld new metal. Everyone knows it.

I've neutralized surface rust with a product called Evaporust by applying it onto paper shop towels and laying them over the affected area. Seems to do a good job. If it's more than surface, it needs to be cut and welded.

Geezzz, some of the opinions on this board should be printed not on a screen, but on toilet paper for easier disposal. You don’t take an unmolested 69 911 with light rust and go cutting on it. Thanks to all with treatment remedies.

Eastwood co has a no. of products made to arrest rust/oxidation- they might have an idea ,to answer your question.

But,I think the "cut it out crowd "may be spot on when it comes to a 69 T and "light rust" depending on its current state of repair.
Light rust will, in time become not so light rust ,which then it could be called "Patina ".

Different strokes for different folks.

This stuff works like an acid but also prevents the subsequent flash rust of a raw acid. (Evaporust)
For stubborn rust, I like to rub it away with a scotch brite pad or steel wool.

https://amzn.to/2TMkwFr

What about Corrosion-X?

Rust can only spread with further surface exposure. If the surface is treated properly, the rust will not be anything more than a light surface corrosion, similar to aluminum oxidation. The treatment chemicals will react with the surface rust and seal the metal from further oxidation.

There is no need to cut, as long as the metal is solid.

I have been using this method on rusted metal for over a decade, and if the surface is protected after treatment, no rust returns.

For light surface rust, Rust Mort which is an acid, works great.

And there's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACGSzBXKONo

That is super cool.

This car is preserved with linseed oil. Lots of bare metal :D

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/7cPkvQ5KI88" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Hello, What is your method? You nailed it. As long as the rust is neutralized, it will not spread. Added to that, this car will no longer be neglected in a barn, or exposed to rain, snow, etc..... Along with it being in a heated and air conditioned garage, and me being 53 years of age, I don't think the rust will rot my car into the ground during my lifetime.

I'm just passing onto you what hey said at car painting class.

If it's not rusted all the way through; sand blast the rust particles away.

Clean immediately with phosphoric acid, then wash off with water. The phosphoric acid leaves a small residue which further prevents rust.

Use compressed air to blow any remaining water away.

Wipe down with prepsole or another degreaser.

As soon as possible spray a 2K epoxy primer over it.

Sand down the primer.

Spray base coat.

Spray clear coat.

In a day or two cut and polish the clear coat.

Thanks all for your help and suggestions.

If you remove all the rust there's no need for ospho or other rust converters.
You don't sand most epoxy primers.
The only time you would sand an epoxy primer would be if the flash time has come and gone then you would lightly sand for mechanical bond rather than chemical.
Bare metal shoot epoxy or etching primer
Then a high build 2k primer (sand able)
Then a sealer (optional)
Basecoat
Clear if not using single stage.

Yeah yeah yeah.

As mentioned the phosphoric acid leaves a residue that further prevents rust - so a good idea. We 800 grit sanded the 2 or 3 coats of epoxy primer to get a smooth surface. And yeah yeah yeah, no clear if using single stage but isn't that so obvious that you don't need to make a point of it.

Wouldn't let you paint my lawnmower yeh yeh yeh.

Your real name isn't Lisa is it?

I had a girlfriend that like you, contributed nothing and criticized everything.

I like the VW. Boiled linseed oil is a bit like a soft varnish, as it will dry up a bit. It can mold over time. Raw linseed oil never hardens.

A lot of guys out east are using a product called Fluid Film, which is made with lanolin, and gets applied every year to all inside panels, crevices, and the underside. Of course the old timers rub would rub kerosene on their tractors, and some still do. I know a guy who has a bucket with sand and kerosene in it. When he is done with the tool, he plunges it into the sand a few times and agitates it.

Then there are products like Krown and Corrosion Free, which come from Canada. You can get those in pails or spray cans, and that is the real deal. Ship2Shore would be a step up from that, as a more industrial coating, but Krown and S2S have to be kept from natural rubber like door seals, as they make it swell. Corrosion Free does not.

Although not a common practice today, before the modern base/clear paints become common, many people cleared single stage enamel paints for more gloss.

Agree with this. I have used Penatrol with great results. Not sure if it is still available, at least not in its original formulation. I believe Penatrol used to be boiled linseed oil, varnish, and turpentine.

That Lisa? Dated her as well. You are spot on. You don't say I lost or got rid of Lisa, you just say I lost my turn.

I am not big on high solids primers and I use your method of 2 part primer and make that smooth.

However, I have finished jobs where a high solids build/sand would have delivered superior results. If I were painting high end cars vs 2002 Camry fenders, I would use the build primer.

How is that for walking the fence?

Also, used Ospho since the 70's. Nothing I have used leaves bare metal. Neutralize rust? Sure. Leave bare metal, nope.

Yes Lisa. Fabulous, amazing even in one or two ways. But all that whinging and criticizing got the better of me after ten years.

All I know is what they told me on the course. I'm leaving the rest up to you guys to point me in the right direction with car painting :)

Rust is like Herpes.

Mind you, I have never once used high solids primer.

Seems reasonable though in certain applications where perfection is important.

I guess what I didn’t make real clear when I started this thread is that no painting is taking place after neutralizing the rust. This is a survivor car. I’m going for the look similar to the linseed Vw video. All these yeh yeh posts has me in the mood to break out my Beatles cd.

Survivor car. If the rust isn’t bad just neutralize and don’t give it any more thought. I can’t tell you how many major restorers do this very practice. Suggesting it cannot be neutralized is scientific fallacy.

Exactly my point, so how do the major restorers go about this? As I said, Porsport has a car currently for sale where they have just neutalized the rust, but after emailing them twice, they will not respond how they went about it on their car. So once again I ask how do you simply neutralize the rust and STOP at that point. Thanks Again!!

come on bill, you've called out my doucheyness a time or two over the years and I in hindsight could not disagree with you after a reread. you are the one being the douche this time around.

toby

:eek:

Phosphoric acid will remove the rust and protect the surface. I prefer using this, especially on parts (let them soak overnight). This is great for surface rust

There are other products out there that are rust converters. The ones I've used have a milky white appearance. Turns blackish/purplish when gets in contact w rust. Not sure how it works. Converts the rust somehow and makes it hard. I have painted over it and rust has not come back

Just buy some boiled linseed oil and have a go. What have you got to lose? The oil won't harm anything.

Viking, you're describing POR-15 and similar products that "convert" rust into a black, hard substance. It deteriorates in sunlight so it should be painted if it will be exposed to sunlight.

OP, check this out. Note that it needs to be reapplied annually. https://www.eastwood.com/eastwood-patina-preserver-aerosol.html

Found this "home brew" method too: CLR, Scotchpad and plain old wax.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p6ROUO1dVa8

There are a number of good products on the market, I don't think there is any hard and fast rule. I like Klean-Strip 1 gallon phosphoric acid at Home Depot for some $15-16. Industrial strength, works great. Rotary wire brush the surface rust off first of course.

There are some great instances when the Scaglietti yard in the 60s and 70s were making bodies and frames for Ferrari when they simply built the thing, tossed the bare unpainted untreated carcass outside in the elements for months on end until Ferrari decided what they were going to do with it, then painted with plenty of surface rust already having formed but of course 'treated' first with whatever Ferrari-Papal approved treatment, aka the cheapest crappiest whatever they had laying around. The great Ferrari historians, Massini, Nye, etc, all 100% attest to this being common practice of the day by Italians in general, so it was not just reserved to the car industry. There are plenty of pics floating around showing plenty of rusty 'brand new' unpainted bodies just sitting out in the Scaglietti yard so let's all not lose our minds about a bit of surface rust. Only be concerned when it gets overly deep and the metal shows signs of weakness.

Why not follow the TDS You know directions from the people who actually make the paint.
Sanding primer with 800 grit is a waste of time and doesn't produce a good enough mechanical bond for the basecoat.Probably one of the most knowledgeable painter on here is 962 Porsche I would seek his advice or your local jobber.

When I can't get every speck of rust I use PPG DX metal treatments. DX 579 followed by DX 520. I wouldn't chance using some hardware rust treatment
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1543848394.jpg