Full digital display gauge set for 911

[Jonny H]

Originally Posted by Coastr

Anyone who has ever tried to write an app to show live data knows how much is involved. Look at the work that went into discsevns arduino Ac control - a single function. The amount of work for an audience of one is insane. It’s like writing a video game to professional standard that only you will play. Possible but a huge time sink.

There is nothing wrong with a standard Porsche 911 dash. In fact it is a time honoured design that millions of people love.

^ This. I cut my teeth in civil and defence flight/ground simulation. My company designed simulated aircraft instruments (amongst other things). Producing a single instrument graphics and the real time firmware to drive is months of work.

You also have to consider the dials are the primary flight instrumentation (ha!). This raises issues about accuracy and vehicle inspections, not to mention the odometer. When your oil pressure of temp doesn’t read properly because of a ‘bug’ that’s gonna be a big problem.

Do you trust your digital warning lights? How are you going to simulate the dim glow of the ignition light from a weak alternator? Simulate that flickery oil level gauge or smooth it out? How do you reset the mileometer or change the clock time. Buttons or touchscreen?

It’s not impossible but it is more work than you’d expect.

[octanemaestro]

Originally Posted by Jonny H

^ This. I cut my teeth in civil and defence flight/ground simulation. My company designed simulated aircraft instruments (amongst other things). Producing a single instrument graphics and the real time firmware to drive is months of work.

You also have to consider the dials are the primary flight instrumentation (ha!). This raises issues about accuracy and vehicle inspections, not to mention the odometer. When your oil pressure of temp doesn’t read properly because of a ‘bug’ that’s gonna be a big problem.

Do you trust your digital warning lights? How are you going to simulate the dim glow of the ignition light from a weak alternator? Simulate that flickery oil level gauge or smooth it out? How do you reset the mileometer or change the clock time. Buttons or touchscreen?

It’s not impossible but it is more work than you’d expect.

Quote: 'When your oil pressure of temp doesn’t read properly because of a ‘bug’ that’s gonna be a big problem."

That sounds like a canard...I'm not sure if you did that intentionally. Are you really going to argue that the old 911 oil level gauge -- the one gauge that was always (even when new) absolutely never to be relied on under any circumstances according to every expert including Wayne Dempsey who we all have to thank for the existence of this very forum as well as numerous books on 911s-- is an accurate gauge that you really can't do without so therefore you can't stomach digitizing your oil level reading.

What is a "digital warning light?" Do you mean a warning light that is triggered by computer code? I'd trust that, if I had one. I have no such warning lights in my car, and either do you if you are talking about a pre-computer 911.

Quote: "This raises issues about accuracy and vehicle inspections, not to mention the odometer."

We are not making public policy decisions here. This is a technical discussion about our individual Porsches. And the odometer? That would be pretty stupid to rely on an analog odometer, especially in an old 911. I think you are stuck in the The Office weekly staff meeting with the boss mode, "I'm just saying it raises questions." "It's a slippery slope! It's a slippery slope!" Those check collecting clock watchers in meetings are funny.

It's 2019 and NO ONE, NO ONE makes the argument that digital is less accurate and reliable than analog. The truth is exactly the opposite of what you're saying. Please redeem yourself.

[Jonny H]

^. You miss my point entirely. I am not saying that a digital display is any less accurate than analog. I’m pointing out that implementing such a system is a difficult and time consuming task.

The processing of somewhat quirky analog sensor signals into a digital real time display system is not a walk in the park. If you’re not an electronics guy Google ‘signal conditioning’. This can be done both in the analog and digital domain (DSP). It is a massive subject in itself.

A case in point, the analog oil gauge is NOT inaccurate, it shows EXACTLY what the sensor reads from the level sender. Making the gauge digital won’t make it more accurate. You’d have to redo the entire oil level system to address the unique way that a 911 shows oil level. So yes, slippery slope.

As for the the ‘clock watcher’ stab, where did that come from?

[ClickClickBoom]

Reinventing the wheel? Trying to make a 911 a modern car leads to the question why? I drive my wife's 2018 Subaru and am amazed at the complexity of the systems. Would that level of complexity make a 911 better, questionable. Would it be cost effective, probably not? If you want a faster, better handling car, there are legions available, all at costs lower than the retrofit costs.
Want a alternate to steam gauge?
Vega Color Singles
You could instrument a 911 to aircraft levels if you want.

[Hi_Fi_Guy]

The most popular car mods tend to enhance performance or solve an irritating problem. Electric A/C, brighter lights, a better shifter, faster acceleration, etc. Something like digital gauges seem like nothing more than a cosmetic change at first glance but as we see with the race car variety they can serve a purpose. I don’t want them on my old 911 but if somebody were to come up with a retrofit gauge package that made the car faster, more reliable, or solved an existing issue then people would line up.

As example, a gps driven speedo with no need for a speedo cable and accurate no matter what wheel/tire combo you run. Just an example of something popular outside of Porsche circles but other similar solutions could create demand.

[James Brown]

anyway, when I fly it's VFR, outside the cockpit. Not IFR (inside) just hook up a big red oil pressure light. the rest does not matter

[monkeyodeath]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

I don't understand this sort of thinking and chuckle at how it doesn't infect small aircraft owners; many put as much modern instrumentation and electronics in their old planes as they can afford (very common to see $25K + instrument panel components in aircraft built in the 60s and 70s). The fact that so many vintage car owners are averse to combining and taking advantage of the best of modern and antique is very amusing.

I feel like in a plane, the accuracy and features of the gauges can mean the difference between life and death. Which is worth a lot of money to most people.

Cars, on the other hand...what's really essential beyond a speedo? Sure, tach and oil and temp gauges can help save you from an engine rebuild...but not really worth it if you'd got to spend as much on them as an engine rebuild would be in the first place.

Not saying that the modern features of newer gauges aren't cool, but the cost and complexity of install is probably pretty far beyond what's worth it to the typical driver.

[octanemaestro]

Originally Posted by monkeyodeath

I feel like in a plane, the accuracy and features of the gauges can mean the difference between life and death. Which is worth a lot of money to most people.

Cars, on the other hand...what's really essential beyond a speedo? Sure, tach and oil and temp gauges can help save you from an engine rebuild...but not really worth it if you'd got to spend as much on them as an engine rebuild would be in the first place.

Not saying that the modern features of newer gauges aren't cool, but the cost and complexity of install is probably pretty far beyond what's worth it to the typical driver.

I am not sure anyone is a "typical driver" of an old 911.

Quote: "I feel like in a plane, the accuracy and features of the gauges can mean the difference between life and death... Cars, on the other hand...what's really essential beyond a speedo?"

I have flown very old airplanes with zero gauges which were perfectly safe. The only non-gauge "gauges" were where the stick is, what you see 360° around you, attitude, weather, orientation, pressure you feel in your ears, overall feeling, pedal positions (by feel), and -- the closest thing to a bona fide gauge -- a skinny rod in front of you on the cowl indicating the fuel level. The latter was to be relied on at your own peril (preferably you'd fill up and remember how much you've flown...that's not asking a lot I think).

With that in mind, some points: Someone made the point above (not sure on which page), which was a very astute comment.... Some people buy a Cessna and spend double or triple the cost of the airplane in instrumentation and avionics, tens of thousands of dollars. Do they need to? Hell no. Do they want to? Sure. Does it make them safe? Maybe, probably. At least in certain circumstances. Do they enjoy having such technology? They do. Do you enjoy your 911? You probably do, otherwise you'd probably sell it or stop driving it.

[OldSpool87]

Originally Posted by octanemaestro

Are there any sources and pictures of anyone who has converted the instrumentation to fully digital displays on their older 911, and perhaps converted the glovebox area too to digital display?

Can you imagine how fantastic that would be to have full digital dashboard gauges like a 2019 car and 2 SRS retrofit airbags.... Awesome. That would be worth a lot. That along with modern heat, AC, defrosters, power locks, auto-down/up windows, except for ABS, you'd have a pretty darn modern car.

You could do it under the “anything is possible” law of nature.

I haven’t seen it done. If you’re up for trail blazing and a lot of trial and error it could be a really interesting and hopefully rewarding project for you.

One bit of personal experience to share; anything placed outside the stock gauge location can be difficult/distracting at speed. For example, I put a small, digital voltmeter in the cigarette lighter space in my SC. Glad I did it but I can’t view it while driving very well. For that reason, I would, at minimum, do a mock up and drive around for anything you want to install outside the stock gauge area.

Good luck!