Clutch basket bolts

[hughc]

When replacing the clutch in 83 sc can I re-use the original bolts?
Also, can I re-use the bolts when re-installing the ring gear?
Thx

[yelcab1]

Yes. Yes. You can even reuse the flywheel bolts.

[hughc]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

Yes. Yes. You can even reuse the flywheel bolts.

Thank you yelcab1, another savings.

[Jonny042]

I always replace them......

[Superman]

In my view, pressure plate bolts can be reused. I would never reinstall a flywheel with used flywheel bolts.

[proporsche]

i`m with yelcab..not necessary to replace the flywheel bolts..simply because the material you have is most likely better quality then what you get nowadays.
The press.plate if the allen fits in nicely no need to replace then either.Do not overtorque them in both cases...

You get different answers on this .....you can bet on it;-)

Ivan

[hughc]

Originally Posted by proporsche

i`m with yelcab..not necessary to replace the flywheel bolts..simply because the material you have is most likely better quality then what you get nowadays.
The press.plate if the allen fits in nicely no need to replace then either.Do not overtorque them in both cases...

You get different answers on this .....you can bet on it;-)

Ivan

I haven't removed the flywheel yet and haven't decided if I will, even if there is some old oil accumulation below the flywheel on the crankcase. It certainly isn't fresh wet oil and I would expect after 35yrs there would be some oil in that area.
By the looks of the flywheel bolts they have never been removed.
From the records I have the clutch was replaced at 90 odd K mi and at 187K mi that clutch still has wear left on it but I am replacing it anyway since I'm in there.
This is my first engine out job and I really don't want to get carried away.
Comments??

[Jonny042]

It's very easy to get carried away, and end up removing and replacing things you could have left alone.

On the other hand, bolts are relatively cheap. If you're like me you're up to your waist in snow and waiting for parts is half the fun

[hughc]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

It's very easy to get carried away, and end up removing and replacing things you could have left alone.

On the other hand, bolts are relatively cheap. If you're like me you're up to your waist in snow and waiting for parts is half the fun

Yes, I agree, it is very easy to remove things that should have been left untouched, especially for first timers such as myself.
I'm realizing that even with 187K mi on the vehicle there should be lots of miles left even if there are a few oil leaks.
I don't think my oil leaks are that serious and at 5K mi/yr usage I should be good for another 10 yrs, which at my age I won't see.
My sc is in extremely nice shape and all I really want is to be able to have it runn9ng properly so that I can enjoy it for a few more years.
F**k the small oil leaks.
Weather wise, things have cleared up enough that I could be using my vehicle so at this point there is no fun in waiting for parts.
I just want to get it on the road and not make a career of fiddling with it.
I have four other vehicles and five pets to deal with, so time is precious.
Thanks for replying.

[hughc]

Originally Posted by Jonny042

It's very easy to get carried away, and end up removing and replacing things you could have left alone.

On the other hand, bolts are relatively cheap. If you're like me you're up to your waist in snow and waiting for parts is half the fun

Yes, I agree, it is very easy to remove things that should have been left untouched, especially for first timers such as myself.
I'm realizing that even with 187K mi on the vehicle there should be lots of miles left even if there are a few oil leaks.
I don't think my oil leaks are that serious and at 5K mi/yr usage I should be good for another 10 yrs, which at my age I won't see.
My sc is in extremely nice shape and all I really want is to be able to have it runn9ng properly so that I can enjoy it for a few more years.
F**k the small oil leaks.
Weather wise, things have cleared up enough that I could be using my vehicle so at this point there is no fun in waiting for parts.
I just want to get it on the road and not make a career of fiddling with it.
I have four other vehicles and five pets to deal with, so time is precious.
Thanks for replying.

[Superman]

The rear main seal on these engines, located behind the flywheel, almost never leak. Oil in the bell housing usually comes from a failed transmission input shaft seal. The oil walks along the input shaft to the clutch disk and pressure plate. Leave the flywheel alone. Torque the pressure plate bolts evenly to the correct torque.

[KTL]

Agreed the clutch and flywheel bolts can be reused. Absolutely agree the tooling in the heads is the most important consideration, along with the condition of the threads. Very frustrating when you have to extract a stripped in-hex or triple square bolt.

And the urban legend that these flywheel bolts are stretch-to-yield bolts and non-reusable is just that. There's nothing in the factory documentation that says "always replace" these bolts. If the threads and tooling are good, they can be reused.

The bolts are part #3 and the schedule of parts simply says the torque spec. No red loctite (but a lot of people choose to use it) and no mention of always replacing.

Originally Posted by Superman

The rear main seal on these engines, located behind the flywheel, almost never leak. Oil in the bell housing usually comes from a failed transmission input shaft seal. The oil walks along the input shaft to the clutch disk and pressure plate. Leave the flywheel alone. Torque the pressure plate bolts evenly to the correct torque.

And the reason the input shaft seal fails, if it's not original, is usually installation error. As in, the seal is placed in the guide tube properly but then the tube + seal assembly is slipped over the input shaft without any protection. This allows the shaft splines to oh so slightly cut the seal lip as it is slid along the shaft. All you need to protect that sensitive seal lip is a wrap of tape around the splines before installing the guide tube.

[hughc]

And the reason the input shaft seal fails, if it's not original, is usually installation error. As in, the seal is placed in the guide tube properly but then the tube + seal assembly is slipped over the input shaft without any protection. This allows the shaft splines to oh so slightly cut the seal lip as it is slid along the shaft. All you need to protect that sensitive seal lip is a wrap of tape around the splines before installing the guide tube.[/QUOTE]

Thank you.
This is all very interesting. I have ordered a new guide tube as there is noticeable wear on the original.
Can I replace the guide tube only or will I have to replace the seal as well?

[KTL]

The seal is pressed into the guide tube. You can drive the old seal out fairly easily if you were in a pinch and needed to reuse it. But the seal is so inexpensive, and you're buying a new guide tube anyway, might as well purchase a new seal as well.

Here's a good thread where we touched on the seal installation for a 915. Part Dux: 915 the Journey <--- this link should take you to post #82

[hughc]

Originally Posted by KTL

The seal is pressed into the guide tube. You can drive the old seal out fairly easily if you were in a pinch and needed to reuse it. But the seal is so inexpensive, and you're buying a new guide tube anyway, might as well purchase a new seal as well.

Here's a good thread where we touched on the seal installation for a 915. Part Dux: 915 the Journey <--- this link should take you to post #82

Thank you for the heads up on the link.
I'll certainly have a close look at that arrangement when I pull it off.
I couldn't find that seal on pelican last night but I'll have another look for it later today.
Cheers

[KTL]

The later seal for the newest guide tube, as far as I can tell, is 999.113.327.40

https://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search_2016.cgi?command=DWsearch&description=99911332740

Note that the guide tube is a bit of a struggle to get off. First, the phillips head screws tend to be a bit stubborn to remove. I recommend you use an impact driver (the type of screwdriver that you strike with a hammer) or an impact gun with a screwdriver socket bit in it.

The tube itself is a bit stubborn in coming out since the fit in the trans housing is a precision fit and the tube also has an o-ring on it. So try not to rock it out too much because you don't want to dent the aluminum bore and disturb the precision fit. That's why the factory manual suggests using a stiff length of wire in the tube (thus the reason the tube has holes in it) to draw it out via leverage. But I also think that factory procedure is assuming you're going to reuse the tube. So you can also grab the tube with a big pair of pliers, with no fear of damaging it since you're replacing it, and gently wiggle it out.

[hughc]

Thanks KTL for that additional information. I did manage to get the screws out but I haven't removed the guide tube yet
I'll wait 'till my parts arrive before I proceed any further.
I think there was a bit of confusion at Pelican when they were processing my order so I'll call later to sort it out.
I'll be sure to keep you informed as to my progress.

[Flojo]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

You can even reuse the flywheel bolts.

one shouldn't!!
these are strech bolts, to be torqued to spec. once torqued down and loosened, do not reuse!

[Flojo]

Originally Posted by hughc

I haven't removed the flywheel yet and haven't decided if I will, even if there is some old oil accumulation below the flywheel on the crankcase.

well, I'd not hesitate, as it's the moment to easily change the seal ring behind it.

[KTL]

Originally Posted by Flojo

one shouldn't!!
these are strech bolts, to be torqued to spec. once torqued down and loosened, do not reuse!

Not true. Show me where this is documented because i've yet to see it and i've reused flywheel bolts numerous times without issue.