Diagnosing CIS Components from Pressure Test

[pmax]

Yes, that diagram is for the 78 which you do not have exactly. 045 vacuum on the side to the TV as above.

2.7 is low for the 033 w/ the 8psi vacuum applied.

[JoeyD1005]

Pmax, so if i can fix any sort of vacuum routing issues and the tests still remain somewhat the same, should I plan on modifying my 033 WUR?

Seems like Tony indicated that it should work as a holdover solution until I can come across a 045 wur.

-Joe

[pmax]

Originally Posted by JoeyD1005

Pmax, so if i can fix any sort of vacuum routing issues and the tests still remain somewhat the same, should I plan on modifying my 033 WUR?

Seems like Tony indicated that it should work as a holdover solution until I can come across a 045 wur.

-Joe

Go as recommended. 2.7 appears to be OK at the low end of the correct 045 for your 78. Just pointing out that it's low for the wrong 033 you have !!


1978/1979 911 SC COLD Control Pressure - Which Graph - 0438 140 045

[JoeyD1005]

Feeling not so fantastic after looking to verify vacuum routing.

Looks like PO deleted the throttle valve as well as the decel valve.

Was able to determine that the red vacuum line runs from a port on the back side of the throttle body directly down to the ignition distributor.

Also while rooting around in the engine bay, I discovered a loose fuel line i'm guessing. It's plugged with a bolt but i don't get the warm fuzzies now. Took a picture of the splitter it connects to.

See pics below:

[JoeyD1005]

Where I expected to find decel valve

[JoeyD1005]

Mystery Hose on rear left side of engine bay:


Splitter that mystery hose terminates to:


Right Passengers Side of Engine Bay for Reference:


Lower Passengers Side of Engine bay for reference:

[boyt911sc]

Joey,

Right now, your WUR-033 is not in a good working condition. It will need some adjustments and calibration to make it work. You will probably lose the whole springtime or even summertime trying to fix or solve your problems.

I have a few WUR-045 that I could loan you to try and test in your car. It is a loaner and you are no obligated to buy it. You will have an opportunity to experience and see how a good working WUR performs. You also need a TTV and DV to replace your missing components.



Send them back to me after the tests in the same condition you received them. PM me if you are interested.

Tony

[JoeyD1005]

Tony,

Thank you for your comment - sent you back a PM.

Also did some more sleuthing around. Ran the engine number through some reference material I found online - looks like this car has a donor engine from a 1980 car which explains why the DV is not in the expected location. I can now confirm that the DV is present on my car. TTV i still need to track down, but this helps a lot.

Cross referenced bosch WUR production chart and looks like 045 is still the money maker.

Looking forward to testing it out.

-Joe

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by pmax

Vacuum applied from a manual pump should do, to the lower vacuum port. The port on the top is to "atmosphere". Another CIS elf which might be malfunctioning is the thermovalve, in line with the WUR vacuum prot, which controls the application of vacuum in your 78.

Yeah, it could. Adjustable is great for tuning your WUR. These are hardly precision devices given the >20% slop in the acceptable operational band.

poor, poor pnutz. his sansei harshed him with bold font quoted portions of this to illuminate his mis-information... AND then he admits "these are hardly precision devices", a carbman could not live that way!!!


living in a stone cavern can stunt my internet, but even this caveman saw that emboldened font spanking on nutz.

poor, poor pnutz.

[pmax]

Sure, carbman jb
The superiority of CIS over carbs is a given even with that slop.

Carry on. Let's not derail Joey's thread, shall we ?

[juanbenae]

come on nutz! you gunna drop the "caveman" slop on me from time to time in unrelated threads and be off scott free? yet when I go eyewitness news on you after being spanked by CIS tony himself you are gunna whine about it?

I hope the OP gets his situation here satisfied, I do. but don't play with the bull if you cant handle the horns.. silly, silly pnutz.

toby


PS- your multiple replies & edited posts tell your tale... silly man

[pmax]

You picked the wrong thread JB. But good thing you are following the details so closely and learning all about the CIS tidbits ! Carry on.

This will be my last response to you here.
My apologies to Joey.

[juanbenae]

I knew I should have quoted the 2nd post you deleted before you actually did so.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

I saw a post by pNutz was made in this thread, and a few mins later I saw that caveman Toby had just posted, so I knew I needed to come-a-lookin' - glad I did!

[juanbenae]

Originally Posted by Rawknees'Turbo

I saw a post by pNutz was made in this thread, and a few mins later I saw that caveman Toby had just posted, so I knew I needed to come-a-lookin' - glad I did!

you my friend have the face, ears and the nose of a blue trackin hound....

[Rawknees'Turbo]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

you my friend have the face, ears and the nose of a blue trackin hound....

And the libido, too!!!

[pmax]

OK, back on topic ...

Originally Posted by JoeyD1005

Mystery Hose on rear left side of engine bay:

It's a mystery alright.

What does the area around the fuel filter look like ?

[JoeyD1005]

Originally Posted by pmax

OK, back on topic ...



It's a mystery alright.

What does the area around the fuel filter look like ?

hey Pmax,

Put on my detective hat yesterday and through some inspection in the engine bay and some creative image searching on the internet I believe I have a accurate picture.

So as a previous post of mine mentioned, I ran the numbers from the engine and it turns out that it is a 3.0 motor from a 1980 car that is currently in my 78. This engine originally had Lambda circuitry on the CIS which is verified by the tag on my FD (077). Whoever did this engine swap did a few things to make it work, hats off to creativity i guess.

1) never installed the lambda circuitry into the car as there is no leads for the relay box under the passanger seat or anywhere in the engine bay. There is also no o2 sensor port on the exhaust so he probably used the heat exchangers/exhaust from the original motor.

2) The mystery hose is in fact the exit of a secondary return line that on a 1980 motor would have exited on the back of the FD and then through a frequency valve before meeting the mystery hose and running back to the tank return. The mechanic has blocked the port on the FD as well as plugged the hose which I took a picture of earlier. So as far as I can tell, this engine was more or less back dated to pre-lambda system.

3) The WUR is from a 77 2.7 motor I believe being an 033 model. Im also unsure if the vacuum enrichment is routed correctly as when I took the port off while the car is running, the idle didn't change at all. But all that being said, it looks like the mechanic had then adjusted the mixture to get it all to run.






That leads me to where I am now.

So I guess the next questions we need to answer are:

1) Will simply replacing the WUR to the correct model be sufficient?

2) I know the WUR and FD typically are a matched pair, but I wonder if the modifications that the mechanic did to the FD will mean that I can continue to use a 045 wur as originally thought.

3) Is the vacuum enrichment routing on the WUR correct? (Does the throttle body have ports for both vacuum as well as manifold bypass?)

4) Any vacuum leaks? (i'll plan on building a smoke machine this weekend and doing a smoke test I suppose)

Then after all that is sorted, I guess its time to putz with the mixture/idle.

What are your thoughts?
-Joe

[pmax]

That's one mixed system with mismatching parts and non standard routing. The 80 FD runs lean without the FV, I believe, so the perhaps the mixture has been adjusted to compensate. The 80 TB doesn't have the same ports as the 78 so who knows how it will work with the 033/045 WURs.

If you ask me, I would install an AFR sensor to measure how and where it's operating at before tweaking the mixture. Hard to tell at this time where that is.

[JoeyD1005]

I agree with you Pmax, I actually have a wide band sitting on my bench that I can weld in a bung for.

On a bit of a different note, if I drop the motor and source the correct parts, is it possible to back date the CIS system to a complete Pre-lambda system? I.e. The correct 045 WUR and FD pairing? Then verify that vacuum lines are routed correctly? My goal is to not bastardize the system any more than it already has and fix it the right way.

Ideally, I'd like to just backdate the CIS system and have everything running as it should and reliably.

Since it was running correctly last season I'm guessing something shat the bed over the winter. Going to do a vacuum smoke test on her this weekend time permitting. Maybe thatll point me in the right direction, although I sort of felt I ruled that out previously. Who knows.

-Joe