Removal of roll pin in pedal cluster

[ThomO]

I have never been able to remove the roll pins in pedal clusters they are always rust welded in and they are too hard to drill out.

I have soaked in PB blaster for months, used heat, bent pin punches with a BFH.

I have taken them to a shop that EDM'd them out.

Any suggestions I have two that I am avoiding.

I know there is someone on pelican that rebuilds pedal clusters, I wonder if he would do just the roll pin removal or share his secret. I am not opposed to paying for the roll pin removals or buy the appropriate tools to do it myself.

Suggestion would be appreciated

[Harpo]

You need to talk to Bruce Stone. I'm sure he is bruce 914 on this fourm.

David

[matt f]

Roll pins are wedge shaped.
Only come out one way.
Make sure you are punching the pin in the appropriate direction.
Couple smacks in wrong direction will make the process more difficult.

[chrismorse]

I didn't see ne in the kit I bought from our host. Is the pin readily available??

I'm looking forward to getting this project done too.

thanks,
chris

[ThomO]

Wedge shaped roll pins I never heard of that? Not saying your wrong but never heard of that. So what is the correct direction then.


Btw I have tried from the only two directions possible.

[javadog]

They make special punches for removing roll pins that have a little protrusion on the end, designed to keep them centered on the pin. A little heat from a heat gun, a little Kroil, and a few whacks. Easy...

JR

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by matt f

Roll pins are wedge shaped.
Only come out one way.
Make sure you are punching the pin in the appropriate direction.
Couple smacks in wrong direction will make the process more difficult.

Not quite right, a roll pin is a cylinder of rolled spring steel and is NOT tapered and can be driven out from either end.
A tapered pin is just what it says, tapered piece of steel, and installed into a hole
created by a tapered reamer and can only be driven out from the small end.
Don't know which is used in the pedal cluster, but you need to know before you start
beating on it!

[yelcab1]

Never seen a wedge shape roll pin. I have done many cluster rebuild, and never had a problem. Punch, heat, hammer and it came out. Rust is overcome with a lot of heat. I did have to replace the entire rod once, it had a crack in it.

[john walker's workshop]

air hammer and the right bit. done tons that way. even in the car when they have sheared.

[Oldporsche]

I have found a couple of types of roll pins present in the pedal cluster. The first one is a European design which is a continuous roll of spring steel. Sometime it appears as a solid pin due to corrosion. The next is the common one found in the hardware store is a thick walled single layered tube with an expansion slit running lengthwise.

A pin punch that has been shouldered (ground down in diameter) may help a lot.

[FPB111]

Originally Posted by john walker's workshop

air hammer and the right bit. Done tons that way. Even in the car when they have sheared.

+1

[martidj]

Yes, a roll pin punch is what you need.

[JJ 911SC]

Not very expensive: http://www.amazon.com/ATD-Tools-762-5-Piece-Roll-Pin/dp/B000OUZBBY

[matt f]

When I stated the roll pins are "wedged shaped" I should have said the roll pins that I've removed from pedal clusters are slightly larger on one end. They are round rolled pins.

Confirmed this with 35 year Porsche tech.
This was on a 74, newer pedal cluster pins may differ.

Apologies for not giving a better description.

Matt

Uwanna description of a tapered reamer may be the appropriate term.
I have always said rolled pin.

[aston@ultrasw.c]

Just went through this.

Porsche use roll pins or Spirol Pins - spelling is correct, named after the company that invented them.

...are made from a strip of spring steel rolled into a coil 2.25 turns

I have had difficulty hammering to remove and install.

In my experience, the BEST way is to use an arbor press. Simple in theory but holding everything in position is rather difficult.

I made some simple fixtures to make it a one person, five minute job.

However I neglected to take pics, sorry about that.

[uwanna]

Originally Posted by aston@ultrasw.c

Just went through this.

Porsche use roll pins or Spirol Pins - spelling is correct, named after the company that invented them.

...are made from a strip of spring steel rolled into a coil 2.25 turns

I have had difficulty hammering to remove and install.

In my experience, the BEST way is to use an arbor press. Simple in theory but holding everything in position is rather difficult.

I made some simple fixtures to make it a one person, five minute job.

However I neglected to take pics, sorry about that.

Well, I've learned something new from this forum, as I usually do daily. Here is a PDF
document with the complete description of Spirol pins from the Spirol company.

http://www.spirol.com/library/main_catalogs/cldp_us.pdf

[aston@ultrasw.c]

The outside dia of the pin is somewhat larger than the hole in the shaft.

To install, the chamfered end is placed against the hole and pressure is applied to the other end.

The pin coils must now tighten up the reduce the OD and the pin will slide in.

In my experience, if you use a hammer the pin starts to insert but tends to bounce back. The impact does not provide enough time for the coils to tighten up.

Hitting it harder only makes this worse and will damage the pin.

A steady force from a press allows everything to happen.

[matt f]

Aston,

Great information. Just read all about Spirols from the site posted by uwanna.
Thanks.

[ThomO]

I have tried the punch technique. I have purchased the amazon punches I will try again just thought there might be a better way

[chris_seven]

Originally Posted by Oldporsche

I have found a couple of types of roll pins present in the pedal cluster. The first one is a European design which is a continuous roll of spring steel. Sometime it appears as a solid pin due to corrosion. The next is the common one found in the hardware store is a thick walled single layered tube with an expansion slit running lengthwise.

In the UK

Type 1 is normally called a 'Coiled Spring Pin' but as you say can be called a Roll Pin.

Type 2 can be called a Slotted Spring Pin but more commonly sold as a SELOC pin and unhappily also called a Roll Pin.

They do have a subtly different duty.

When Coiled Pins are installed, the compression starts at the outer edge and moves through the coils toward the centre and spread compressive stress over the entire pin they do not have stress point concentrations.

Slotted Pins compress by closing the slot, and stress is concentrated 180 degrees opposite the slot. This embedded stress at installation, combined with the concentration of stress during the assembly’s life reduces the fatigue life of the Slotted Pin potentially causing earlier failure.

In this application it shouldn't make any difference but there are cases where the pin type shouldn't be changed.