Spring Plate Bushing Came Off on Reindexing - What to Do?

[wrxnofx]

I purchased some adjustable spring plates from a notable manufacturer on this website in November, as I was redoing the rear suspension on my '87 Carrera. The spring plates come mounted with new bushings direct from this manufacturer.

Two weekends ago I installed them and indexed the torsion bar angle based on what it was when I removed everything. Long story short, I needed to re-index after I got the car on the ground.

I raised the car back up on jack stands, removed all the bolts from the spring plate, removed the spring plate cover, and began prying the spring plate out of the torsion tube. Imagine my surprise when the spring plate came out and left the inner bushing behind in the torsion tube!


I've been on this forum quite a few years and have never seen this happen before. I lubed up the end of the spring plate and tried to push it back into the bushing. Yeah, not happening. The inner part of the bushing is hard plastic and there is no way I was going to get that thing to slide back on.



The only way that I knew of to get the bushing out was to grab it with a pliers and tug on it until it gave way. Needless to say, I've damaged some of the rubber, although the hard plastic at the center is basically fine:



I reached out to customer service and they in turn reached out to the manufacturer. Here was the manufacturer's response:

"Those bushings performed exactly how they are designed. We actually prefer installing the busing (sic) into the chassis first and then just inserting the spring plate from there. These bushings are replicas of the factory bushings and the factory bushings function in the same way that they can be removed from the spring plate. We do sell the bushings separately."

I call utter and complete B.S. Every post of every rear suspension refresh I have ever seen has people installing the bushings onto the spring plate before putting them into the car. Did they expect me to remove them from the spring plates first before installation even though they shipped them that way? There were no instructions of any kind that came with these things so that tells me no. If they REALLY expected me to insert them into the torsion tube first then shouldn't they have come uninstalled along with the spring plates?

What do you guys think? Assuming they won't stand behind their product and ship me a new bushing, is the missing rubber enough to compromise the performance of the bushing? I really have no interest in spending another dime from this company.

[911pcars]

Depending on the prior installation, that bushing is a tight/close fit (as it should be) on either or both spring plate and chassis.

There were probably less destructive methods of nudging the bushing free of the chassis. Fortunately, replacement is fairly low buck. Not sure how much massaging you'll end up fitting the new one though. However, from the limited damage shown, it should function as designed with no side issues, albeit with a few chunks missing.

I would make sure there's no easy path for water to enter the torsion tube.

Sherwood

[Solamar]

I agree with your assessment.

I bought bushings from Elephant (thru Pelican) and you glue the bushings to the spring plate, then press into torsion tube. This style (factory) bushing should never "slip" on the spring plate or torsion tube. It adds to the spring rate and is supposed to flex "twist" with suspension movement.

I'd request replacement bushing or return the mess...

edit: I believe, but am not positive, that the factory vulcanized the bushings onto the spring plate. Zero slip.

[jjeffries]

I just did a very similar job on my SC, but used Rebel RSR spring plate- and control arm-bushings. You likely don't want to spend more $$$ right now, but they sure are awfully nice parts to go with those lovely adjustable spring plates you have. If not, i'd just buy Elephant's "sport rubber" spring plate bushings...IIRC, ca $100.
I broke off the little bugger on one of my new ball joints which holds the star lock plate in place. I'd bent it and used a hair too much oomph as I tried to straighten it out. $40 lesson, no big deal. John/CT

[Trackrash]

Those look like plastic bushings in the picture. AKA ploy graphite. If so that is how they are supposed to work. The rubber ones should be glued, as mentioned to the spring plate.

[wrxnofx]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

Those look like plastic bushings in the picture. AKA ploy graphite. If so that is how they are supposed to work. The rubber ones should be glued, as mentioned to the spring plate.

Hi Gordon,

They are kind of a hybrid. That is, the inner cylinder is hard plastic, but then the outer perimeter is a rubber and must be bonded to the hard plastic in some capacity.

Would you use Super Glue like you use to mount the Elephant ones?


That's kind of what I'm thinking at this point.

I know where I'm going next time I need spring plate bushings...

[Marwil]

Hmmmm, two things.
One: I recently bought and am about to install spring plates like the ones the PO appears to have experienced problems with (made by Prekom). Soooo, I am a litte concerned that I will run into the same problems long term.

Two: Three years ago I replaced polyurethane bushings with ones as pictured in post #6 following the recommenced technique for prep and glueing. Last night, in preparation for installing the Prekom EZ-Adjust spring plates, I pulled off of the torsion cover plate. The bushing came with it. The glue clearly didn't hold and it appears that the torsion arm was spinning inside the rubber bushing, despite my best efforts to follow the recommended techniques for installation.

Take away: There do not appear to be any ideal solutions that perform like the factory spring plates in terms of bushing adherence to the spring plate bosses.

[Walt Fricke]

I've got Poly-Bronzes, so don't have advice here, but the factory rubber is very very securely bonded on. When I tried to get the factory rubber off I had to use a torch, and basically burned it off. It was not meant to be removed, but rather just to twist back and forth as the arm moved up and down.

[Trackrash]

I guess the question is are you going to re-use those bushings? If so are they designed to slip on the inside? The poly-graphites slip on the inside, unlike the factory which slips on the outside. From the pictures it looks to me like yours are designed to slip on the inside.

[wrxnofx]

Originally Posted by Trackrash

I guess the question is are you going to re-use those bushings? If so are they designed to slip on the inside? The poly-graphites slip on the inside, unlike the factory which slips on the outside. From the pictures it looks to me like yours are designed to slip on the inside.

Don't think they are supposed to slide. The driver's side does not do this, and I re-indexed that side's torsion bars without any issue.

[911pcars]

There has to be some slippage to allow the spring plate/control arm to work ..... like a suspension. Otherwise a fixed bushing will resist relative movement and thus contribute to/affects the spring rate.

S

[jpnovak]

There are different types of bushings. rubber can be bonded because its flexural properties allow it to twist. Hard bushings like poly-graphite and hybrids are designed to rotate. Same with the "bearing" type bushing systems (poly Bronze, Delrin, etc).

I would not glue these in. The hard plastic surface is designed to slip. That's how the spring plate can rotate on axis of your torsion bar. In fact, I would pull them all out and hone them until the slip freely. Reduce some friction and gain some ride compliance. There are several threads about honing these bushings until they rotate freely.

At this point, just put them back in and move on. Shave the outside so they go in a little easier without pinching and causing friction for the spring plate. Do the same on the outer. Make sure the bushing can rotate on the spring plate. binding suspension is not good in any way.

[Trackrash]

Not a bad idea to use some grease for lubrication. I used wheel bearing grease and special Teflon. Both worked. A friend of mine cut grooves in his and added zirks so he could regrease them with a grease gun without removing them. I have not had a problem with them squeaking, but it has been known to occur.

[911 Rod]

I can't see why the company would cover these under warranty. You grabbed them with the wrong tool. Should have made something up to pull from behind.
We've all been there. Suck it up and buy a new one.

[wrxnofx]

Originally Posted by 911 Rod

I can't see why the company would cover these under warranty. You grabbed them with the wrong tool. Should have made something up to pull from behind.
We've all been there. Suck it up and buy a new one.

Yeah, I don't disagree that I grabbed it with the wrong tool. IMO the bushing should never have come off the plate. The driver's side came out of the torsion tube still bonded to the plate as I would expect it to. In the first pic you can see the remnants of whatever adhesive they used to bond the bushing to the plate.

They also don't sell these bushings individually, only as a set of 4. How convenient.

[kamaro]

Originally Posted by wrxnofx

Yeah, I don't disagree that I grabbed it with the wrong tool. IMO the bushing should never have come off the plate. The driver's side came out of the torsion tube still bonded to the plate as I would expect it to. In the first pic you can see the remnants of whatever adhesive they used to bond the bushing to the plate.

They also don't sell these bushings individually, only as a set of 4. How convenient.

I've been there few weeks ago when I was installing the Sway-a-way adjustable spring plates. what I did was very simple yet very effective and took me a minute to install the spring into the bushing, I grabbed a small metal container, filled with water and dropped the bushing in the water and boiled it, that made it very flexible and very easy to deal with, I just instantly lubed it with lithium grease (the tuff and sticky transparent grease that usually comes with polyeurethane bushings) and put together, the spring plate went in very easily, you just need to do it fast enough before it gets cold again.

[fueledbymetal]

Originally Posted by kamaro

I've been there few weeks ago when I was installing the Sway-a-way adjustable spring plates. what I did was very simple yet very effective and took me a minute to install the spring into the bushing, I grabbed a small metal container, filled with water and dropped the bushing in the water and boiled it, that made it very flexible and very easy to deal with, I just instantly lubed it with lithium grease (the tuff and sticky transparent grease that usually comes with polyeurethane bushings) and put together, the spring plate went in very easily, you just need to do it fast enough before it gets cold again.

Is there any risk of the boiling temps degrading the bushing?

[kamaro]

Originally Posted by fueledbymetal

Is there any risk of the boiling temps degrading the bushing?

I got that idea from a buddy of mine who own an off-road patrs shop, they are doing that for years and if its strong enough for off-road applications, then it should be more than excellent in this application.

[jpnovak]

No risk of damaging in boiling water. Almost all of these bushings are urethane base and they can withstand continuous operating temperatures at 212F (100C). The difference is that they slightly soften (thermoplastic) so they can be installed.

[fueledbymetal]

Originally Posted by jpnovak

No risk of damaging in boiling water. Almost all of these bushings are urethane base and they can withstand continuous operating temperatures at 212F (100C). The difference is that they slightly soften (thermoplastic) so they can be installed.

Thanks!