Converting my 77 Targa thread

[Nditiz1]

Spuggy - This motor was running well in the other car. I haven't made any modifications to it besides taking certain things away, backdate heat. What else would cause a low idle?

Just trying to rule out the throttle stop as the issue.

Also, temp gauge never came up even though I know the engine got up in temp. Also the pressure stayed pegged.

[Nditiz1]

Got the gauge issue all sorted out. Sensors are still mismatch for the application, but will be rectified shortly. Now onto why I have a low throttle.

Sort throttle issue
Replace clutch cable
Hookup throttle linkage
Reconnect axles to trans
Reconnect shift linkage
Reconnect back up light wires

[hughc]

Originally Posted by Nditiz1

Getting closer.
Hi-Torque starter from old trans installed.
Trans torqued down.
Car lifted to 36 inches to roll engine under.
Removed the blower motor bracket and fab'd a tiny bracket to hold the CIS component (2-wire, 2-hose module for CIS mounted to old blower bracket)

Having recently removed engine/ransmission from my car I dont know if I would recommend putting jack stands on cinder blocks.
I was always concerned that the elevated car was stable enough.
In fact, the jack stands were always complimented with a stack of 2x8s under the vehicle. One can never be careful enough and I'm glad it worked out well for you.

[Nditiz1]

Good advice, thanks hughc.

[Nditiz1]

Good news, my previous engine had a 0-10 bar oil pressure gauge to match the gauge that did not go with the engine when sold. Swapped that in so now just need to swap out the temp sensor and all is well between gauges and sensors.

I'm waiting for some CIS tools (pressure tester) so I can delve into the CIS and find out why I have a low idle. I did manage to screw out the bypass screw 2 full turns which helped with the idle bringing it up to ~800 and keeps the engine from stalling.

Installed the throttle linkage from engine to trans. Got the clutch cable in the mail (GEMO), next will be to tackle that beast. I'm pretty sure I should have done this before putting the engine and trans in .:smh:. oh well.

[Solamar]

I've enjoyed following this thread, glad things are getting sorted.

I have a '78 Targa sans engine that I'll be installing a 3.2 into shortly. Sure I'll be enjoying many of the same issues you've gone through.

Beautiful Targa BTW. That brown looks great with the stainless targa bar.!

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Nditiz1

Spuggy - This motor was running well in the other car. I haven't made any modifications to it besides taking certain things away, backdate heat. What else would cause a low idle?

Just trying to rule out the throttle stop as the issue.

Yeh, dunno. Could be all sorts of things.

I don't see why you want to rule out the throttle stop. The end stop for the butterfly linkage is provided by an adjustable screw. That's the idle screw. If idle speed doesn't respond to the slightest movement of that screw in either direction, up or down, that is not correct.

It's probably a stretch to expect a decent idle on a CIS car when cold - probably not by-the-book correct, but my 930 always wanted to idle 200 RPM lower when it had CIS/was cold. (Not that I'd let it do that longer than it took to select gear and pull away, and that after running @ 1500-2000 RPM for 90 seconds or so - or until I could tell from the oil pressure gauge that the internal engine thermostat had opened).

I won't personally idle an aircooled motor - hot or cold - for longer than a few minutes if I can avoid it. My oil temps are frosty when I'm moving thanks to a big old FMOC. But hotter idling in traffic or on my driveway for a few minutes than they are on the track...

Is it possible the throttle rod was mis-adjusted when motor was in the other car and that was holding the butterfly off the stop? Did you use the same throttle rod? Is the rod in the tunnel adjusted to precisely the same length on both cars?

Seems kinda silly to go there. Just adjust it correctly.

The throttle linkage shouldn't have much play - I believe the spec is 1-15mm or so (mine has very little).

You should probably also check that the throttle opens all the way; many guys have realized that they weren't getting full throttle at the butterfly with full-throttle at the pedal end...

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Nditiz1

I did manage to screw out the bypass screw 2 full turns which helped with the idle

The way to set the idle speed is with the idle adjuster screw. And then you check/set CO2 on the idle mixture circuit until in-spec.

I'm out.

[Nditiz1]

Hooked up the helper spring and clutch lever linkage.
Replaced clutch cable and set it to spec.

Got the trans linkage hooked up. Dry run through the gears seem o.k. (I know not a great determination since everything is laying dormant) I feel as though the 923 had a tighter first gear than this trans. While they are identical except for gear ratio and a few gears I think the feeling is from a worn syncro band which is expected for first gear. The bushings were swapped out in the last 6 months. As long as it doesn't pop or grind we are good.

Installed the CVs to 33 ft lbs with new Schnorr washers.

Back up wires in place and working.
New T-stat sensor is coming today as well as the other side (driver) of the Backdate heat setup.

While swapping out the clutch cable i needed to remove the wooden foot pad which is also the stop for the clutch pedal. Well the wood at the top going around two metal tabs broke on the clutch pedal side causing the clutch pedal to potentially go further. I could screw a piece of metal strip across the top why not do away with this piece of wood and install a nice Rennline foot board instead.

LOW THROTTLE UPDATE...
So the car starts and runs well but the idle is down. Even after using the bypass screw the best I could reach was ~800 rpm. I have been working close with Tony - CIS master. I tested the AAR and found out it is good. Started to remove the AAV which is more of a pain since you need multi jointed tiny hands to reach behind and disconnect to hoses from the saucer. I had previously checked the timing and found it didn't seem correct. The light was showing it to be roughly 5 degree ATDC. I moved the distro to have it set to 5 BTDC, a whole 10 move. This indeed increase the idle above 1000 and i need to readjust the bypass screw to bring it back down. Success! I checked the timing @6000 and it was ~28. More than the spec book, but I can adjust if needed. So this came as great news! Until the engine got hot enough, sputtered, backfired, stalled.

Ok so I fixed one issue only to have a new symptom. This may have been there all along, but I never had the engine running long enough to cause it to stall. That's ok the CIS pressure tester should be in the mail and checking fuel pressures will be the next step. I'll get this car sorted.

@spuggy - why you leaving?

[Nditiz1]

Mini update...

Sent out CDI to Bob Ashlock. Thanks for those commenting on my other post about the warm stall issue. I'll get it sorted and be driving in no time.

I got the throttle linkage all sorted and am pretty sure I'm getting max throw at the pedal.

Items left:
Install sway bar
Install side lower rear quarter panel with black trim piece
Install pass rear wheel
Ensure correct amount of oil is in the system (currently at 12 quarts and the dipstick shows low, but it is ass end up). The last engine run test proved the t-stat is functioning as I felt the trombone get a little warm.
Install backdate heat drive side piece and appropriate hoses

Some eye candy. Yeah I know the carpet covers some of the bliss, but what am I to do cut it, nah.

[Nditiz1]

So Bob (the wizard) Ashlock received my failing CDI yesterday. It was determined that my 31/1 connection was eroded to the point that when the car warmed up to a certain temp the metal would separate creating a break in the ground causing the engine to stall. He performed his full service on the unit at a very reasonable price. If you are experiencing any kind of warm stall issues and have already worked with Tony to check out your CIS, swap in a working CDI as yours could be failing. Or just send out yours to be refreshed. Not only does it come back with refreshed internals (capacitors, etc.) and a clean bill of health, it also looks new outside with a bead blast and new stickers.

I'm sure this has been expressed on here before, but:

Bob Ashlock CDI service
TACH-ADAPT

Pic of problem area:

[Nditiz1]

WOW!

So I got my CDI back from Bob. It looks excellent. It works excellent in fact. Took the car out on its maiden voyage post 6 install. It did wonderful. It performed better than expected. This is the driving experience people were talking about. Having the 4 cyl in there while nice the car lacked go-power. The clutch required a heavier foot. The throttle required more force too.

The 3.0 in this car totally transformed the feel. The clutch felt almost weightless - very comparable to my mk4 R32 VW. The throttle felt like a perfectly setup set of dual carbs where the only resistance is the springs on the carb bodies and no other helper springs. I press the gas and it just goes. Power even seems to pick up between 3k - 6k. I had never really experienced this driveability in a 911 (only owned 1 and it previously had a 4 cyl)

So the CDI was causing my warm stall issue. Everything seems to be running great now. Pressure good. Temp looks good too. It saw a max of 210 on a long spirited drive with 88F ambient temp. It was also nice to see that the unknown trans I threw in currently has no reported issue that were listed in the ebay ad regarding a crunch in 2nd and 3rd. Most likely fluid, bushings, and knowing how to drive it were factors with the PO of the trans. It is performing just as good as the 923 that was in here. I do have a low idle cold, high idle warm thing happening. Might be the nature of things. If I set the idle correctly when cold at 950, when it gets fully warm it ends up being 1200-1300. If I set it to 950 when warm, after the cold start high idle process the idle is low like around 500 - 600. I may just set it to a happy medium. Not sure if this is just how the CIS works, I'll ping Tony. The only other thing and it is cosmetic related is I am now a little too low in the rear. I ended up rubbing the rear tires on my spirited outing when the car sat down in corners. The height was set perfectly for the 4, but the additional 200 weight has brought the rear low. It doesn't look bad, but since I am running 16" SC wheels with a little wider tire it's trimming the edge just a bit. I'm going to max out the adjustable plates to see if I can bring it up maybe a half inch.

[Nditiz1]

Just a little update. Been trying to drive this dream as much as I can. 300+ miles since July 1st. I took apart the Oel Level sender to adjust and clean as I was thinking it was bouncing around a little more than it should. Things checked out, but I did calibrate it to only show between the ends of each mark.

My temps have gotten a little warm (~220) on hot days (90+) combined with spirited driving. I am picking up a Carrera Oil cooler and fan, but before that might try the super secret tech of Chevron Delo 15w-40 400 LE. Apparently drops oil temps by 30 degrees. As soon as I get more miles to perform an oil change Ill swap it in.

I have been getting a lot of drips onto the passenger HE and 1 on the drivers side. I believe these to be caused by leaking Rocker Shafts. Upon removing the valve cover I could see oil inside each of the passages which I believe should not contain oil (where the head studs are accessed). I also saw some silicone like some was trying to fix the issue (some people shouldn't work on cars). I ordered some RSR seals to install. Crossing my fingers this fixes this annoying problem.