Converting my 77 Targa thread

[Nditiz1]

Thought I should start one of these threads for reach back, knowledge exposure, and if someone sees a pitfall I need to address (do I need new CV seals when reinstalling the transmission?)

So what did I start with. I picked up my first 911 less than a year ago. I have enjoyed driving it and tinkering with it. It's a 77 Targa that had a windows out restoration (10yrs old). The car is immaculate inside and out with one caveat. It was converted to a 912E. All the correct sources were acquired by the PO. The only non-912E components used were a 914 block and D-jet FI induction. A 923 trans, engine tin, 923 engine bar, etc were all used. While the car ran great, I always felt it was a little under powered. I was apprehensive about dropping the engine and trans for the swap since time is limited with 3 little ones under 5. Also, I don't like having a nice car like this up on stands. Well I came across a decent running engine and picked up a trans to go with it (82 3.0 US eng running ROW CIS and an 82 trans) both the engine and the trans have roughly 80k on them. At one time the trans had something blow up inside the bell housing as it has scoring around where the ring gear spins. The 3.0 has had some work done with oil fed tensioners, various gaskets and seals recently replaced.

Here is the rundown of what needs to take place for this to work.
Drop engine/trans
Rewire 14 pin connector (original was cut and 914 harness spliced in)
Rewire factory 77 harness to convert from 3 pin CDI to 6 pin
Replace Accumulator with SC stlye
Fix/replace ROW fuel return line on 3.0
Run oil lines, thermostat, cooler
Install oil tank
Freshen up trans with guide tube, seals, fork, a good cleaning
Install new/rebuilt clutch
Fix backup light bullet connector
4 new mounts trans/engine
Grind 912E engine bar bracket on oil tank side (interferes)
Install engine/trans

[Nditiz1]

Engine and trans out and shipped. No real issues here. Followed the tech article in the 912E book on removing.

Relay Panel in the oil tank location removed.
914 Wiring harness removed.
Old accumulator removed and new one put in.
Brackets for MPS and removed.
Heater blower removed.

[Nditiz1]

This is the wiring mess. Dennis (Timmy2) helped me get things sorted. The only 2 things that needed to switch from the stock 77 harness was a move of a brown/black wire into the T2 connection where the black/purple tach wire was. The tach wire moved to pin 12. I also removed some added wires that went to the T2 connector and the rear fuse box as part of the 914 conversion. I got a 6 pin Bosch CDI to replace the 3 pin Permatune. Here is my mock up.

[Nditiz1]

Finished up the rewire. Fit the oil tank (need some of the specific mounting hardware still). Fuel return line fixed on the engine.

[mb911]

Looks very good..

[Steve F]

Well done on the electrical diagrams!!

[piscator]

Beautiful Targa! And, beautiful work!

Those diagrams are wonderful. They'll be a big help to someone in the future. It's a big job you've undertaken and will be fun to watch. Keep us posted!

[Jack Stands]

I imagine there’s 912E folks that could use the extra parts so don’t toss them.

[Nditiz1]

Thanks! Yeah I sold the eng to a guy needing one for his 76 914. The trans and Stebro exhaust went to another guy that owns a 912E.

[fanaudical]

Interesting - never heard of anybody going 911-to-912 (always seems to be the other direction).

Good job bringing it back.

[Nditiz1]

Oil lines 90% in, just waiting to mount up the last two from the T-stat to the tank and engine. Tank is in and mounted with all correct washers. New pressure plate, clutch, ring gear(old), and bearing are in place. New clutch fork installed - that new pin was a *****. Drained out the old red fluid so I'm ready for some new Kendall.

Found out the 923 clutch cable is different than the 915 so I had to order that, should be hear on Monday. Also, realized I don't have one of the oil elbows that go to the tank so I needed to order that as well. Even if I do manage to get the engine back in this weekend I can't run it on that account. Tuesday next week I might be able to start it up for the first time since the old engine drop out.

SC tach installed with a glass face, the plastic one had a scratch and glass is nicer :-). I shouldn't have any issues here. Old tach was from a 914.

[Nditiz1]

Trans mated to engine (almost). Just need to bolt it down.

[Nditiz1]

Getting closer.
Hi-Torque starter from old trans installed.
Trans torqued down.
Car lifted to 36 inches to roll engine under.
Removed the blower motor bracket and fab'd a tiny bracket to hold the CIS component (2-wire, 2-hose module for CIS mounted to old blower bracket)

[Nditiz1]

And just like that the engine is in place.
Now to connect all the oil lines, fuel lines, and electrical.

[Flat6pac]

Nick, looking good
Bruce

[Nditiz1]

Thanks Bruce!

Update:
Put in the last two rear oil lines
Finished making sure everything was tightened up regarding the oil lines, air breather lines, and fuel lines.
Filled the tank with 8 quarts of oil
Hooked the battery ground back up.

Moment of truth.....turn the key.
Oil tank shows oil
Fuel shows fuel
Temp shows 340???? pegged
Pressure shows 140???? pegged
Oil light is green
Generator light is not on
I hear a piercing beep - I believe it to be the BOSCH CDI
Go to turn the ignition and nothing except for what sounds like the fuel pump running

Sigh...

Thinking things over I forget about the trans ground strap. OH maybe that's it!!!!
Hook that up, and try again.....

FAIL

Not sure what I am missing. I wonder if the PO had something wired up differently. I pretty sure I matched up the 14 pin connector correctly, although the starter wouldn't even turn over.

Does the fuel pump only engage when the engine is running?
When I had the old engine in (914 motor) I would hear the fuel pump as soon as I turned the key to the on position.

[Nditiz1]

Ok so Pressure and temp gauges are still pegged when I turn the key on.

I found out that the T2 connector when unhooked allows the fuel pump to run continuously.

The high pitched beep is in fact the CDI - normal I believe

If I unhook the 14 pin connector and turn the key the temp goes to 0 as it should, but the pressure stays up.

I think I hear the starter click after finding the engine side big Red wire in the t14 connector had come out of it's splice. I now hear a click but it is not turning the engine over. Maybe the ebay hi-torque is not enough.

I should be able to get it running without the tranny helper spring/arm all in place correct?

It just dawned on me...does the clutch need to be pressed in to start the car?

[Nditiz1]

Besides the crap I forgot to install the trans ground strap I had another CRAP! moment.

Diagnosing why I only hear one click when trying to start. I found similar posts of where some other Pelican had a similar issue. The listed the 3 wires they reattached when the engine went back in. The same 3 wires I put back in. Well there is a 4th, the big black wire. Can't believe I forgot that one. I will put that on as soon as I get home. Maybe it will help with the pegging gauge issues I see as well.

[Nditiz1]

OK! She's running!!!!!

She is running at low RPM so I'm not sure what to do there. If I hold down on the throttle it runs at the given RPM. Now, to go learn about CIS lol. Tony!!!!!! I'll post a vid of it running.

I don't have the throttle body hooked up to the trans pivet via the rod yet. Does that rod somehow put extra pull onto the throttle to keep it open more simulating what I was doing with my hand?

Here is the video:
https://youtu.be/dE9nX1CaTto

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by Nditiz1

OK! She's running!!!!!

Cool!

Originally Posted by Nditiz1

She is running at low RPM so I'm not sure what to do there. If I hold down on the throttle it runs at the given RPM. Now, to go learn about CIS lol. Tony!!!!!! I'll post a vid of it running.

I don't have the throttle body hooked up to the trans pivet via the rod yet. Does that rod somehow put extra pull onto the throttle to keep it open more simulating what I was doing with my hand?

Nope, throttle rod does not (and should not) pre-load the throttle linkage.

Look on the throttle body. There'll be a throttle stop around the linkage where it attaches to the butterfly. Likely this is adjusted so butterfly closes more than you want; just screw in slightly until the RPM picks up, set where desired, but not too low. Idle spec for 80-up US SC is 900 +/- 50 RPM.

My 930 with SC cams, has always greatly preferred the upper end of spec for idle...