Andial 2.9 Engine Refresh on a Budget

[r-mm]

I want to voice a note of support for working on a budget. There is tremendous knowledge and nothing but nice people here but sometimes for folks who are watching the dollars it can be a bit alienating to hear about everyone sending out their parts to the best and brightest for high dollar work. It is totally possible to do a really nice job rebuilding one of these motors for a fraction of what it is easy to come to believe it must cost. I support our host but I also price shop a lot and do the same for any machine work. I never do anything that feels substandard and stick to OEM brands and people who are very familiar with these motors but if you look around and question whether various things are necessary I am sure you can bring this project in at a reasonable cost. If you wanna discuss anything off line feel free to PM me and I can share some of my sources.

[chrisbalich]

for my very recent engine install, I didn't support the rear of the car with the torsion tubes. I installed the hockey puck rear pan jack points and lifted from there using a 2x8 across them both and lifting from the center with my floor jack. I then put the jack stands under the lower shock mounts. It got the car plenty high for my purposes, but did settle a bit once I bolted the engine in and the let down the table. This method basically provides an extra 2-3" of height once the engine is out, but whatever you lift the engine with needs to be able to achieve that same height.

I wonder how my ITBs with no filters/trumpets compare to CIS in regards to height. I also did not have the bumper installed.

Since putting the engine back in, I've lifted the car by the newly installed rear jack-point and supported its weight with the jack stands directly on the hockey pucks. Unfettered access to the rear of the car and plenty of height for rolling/wiggling around under it.

[ADDvanced]

Monday morning update:

Wrench on the car on/off all weekend, was able to get a lot more done.

- Engine/Sump drained
- Oil filter removed
- Rubber oil tank line removed
- Heater hoses removed
- Starter wiring removed
- Oil lines taken apart (yay 36mm/30mm wrenches on amazon!)
- Small clutch arm/spring removed
- I got stuck on removing the larger clutch arm. The lever that was supposed to slide downwards did not, and I pried like hell on it, torched it, nothing worked. I did some more google fu and realized there is a roll pin holding it in. I really wish Wayne's book had mentioned this; and I'm really hoping I didn't damage anything by prying on it so hard. I spent over an hour trying to hammer the pin out; I got it to move a small amount and at that point I had a lot of pain my shoulder, so I gave up. I then read that you don't even need to remove this arm if you're taking the engine/trans down as a single unit, so that was a lot of wasted time.
- Speed sensor removed
- Reverse sensor removed
- Axles all unbolted from trans

Still need to unhook fuel lines, shift coupler, and a few other things. I'm pretty unclear on the accelerator rod/bellcrank thing. Do I need to disconnect this stuff if I am dropping the engine/trans as one single unit?

[911pcars]

Disconnect throttle rod from pedal at the bell crank. Everything toward engine can remain until the drivetrain is out.

Create more room to maneuver by removing the muffler and rear valence.
Harness wires in engine compartment (ignition, oil temp/pressure sensors, etc.)
Fuel line
Air filter(s) for add’l engine clearance

[3rd_gear_Ted]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

Monday morning update:

Wrench on the car on/off all weekend, was able to get a lot more done.

- Engine/Sump drained
- Oil filter removed
- Rubber oil tank line removed
- Heater hoses removed
- Starter wiring removed
- Oil lines taken apart (yay 36mm/30mm wrenches on amazon!)
- Small clutch arm/spring removed
- I got stuck on removing the larger clutch arm. The lever that was supposed to slide downwards did not, and I pried like hell on it, torched it, nothing worked. I did some more google fu and realized there is a roll pin holding it in. I really wish Wayne's book had mentioned this; and I'm really hoping I didn't damage anything by prying on it so hard. I spent over an hour trying to hammer the pin out; I got it to move a small amount and at that point I had a lot of pain my shoulder, so I gave up. I then read that you don't even need to remove this arm if you're taking the engine/trans down as a single unit, so that was a lot of wasted time.
- Speed sensor removed
- Reverse sensor removed
- Axles all unbolted from trans

Still need to unhook fuel lines, shift coupler, and a few other things. I'm pretty unclear on the accelerator rod/bellcrank thing. Do I need to disconnect this stuff if I am dropping the engine/trans as one single unit?

yes on all.
Don't forget the ground strap for trans/engine to chassis
been there

[ADDvanced]

Oh yeah, got the ground strap off too!

Expecting to drop it tonight. Then the struggle of trying to figure out how to get it onto the engine stand.

[Trackrash]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

Oh yeah, got the ground strap off too!

Expecting to drop it tonight. Then the struggle of trying to figure out how to get it onto the engine stand.

Harbor Freight has a reasonable priced chain hoist that works well. Or three strong friends.

[911pcars]

If you have the room, HF also has a decent engine hoist or can rent.

Aftermarket engine stands typically have a pair of yoke holes and a pin. I suggest drilling add’l matching rotation stop holes in yoke (minimum 45 deg.) with the adapter tube.

Bolt engine adapter to engine, lift, then slide adapter tube/engine assy into the stand yoke.

S

[patkeefe]

I drop my engine using a sears motorcycle jack that has two pieces of steel channel bolted to it, essentially makes it wider such that the heat exchangers rest nicely on top of it. You need like 35" clear to get the engine out using this method.

I have two small platforms, consisting of diamond plate steel welded onto tho sections of C channel steel. A jack stand fits on the little platform. The feet of the jackstand don't dig in to them as it does if using wooden platforms.

I used to pick the engine up with a come along or a chain hoist that was cargo strapped over a beam in my old garage. Since I moved, I have been using a couple of 2x4's across the opening of the garage attic stairs, and hooking the come along over that. Principally the same. Or you could simply get two people to lift it onto an engine stand. It is tough but do-able. Use the methodology described above by 911pcars.

You will quickly learn what you forgot to disconnect when you lower the engine. Having the clearance to slide it out from under the car is really the most important thing.

[r-mm]

Forgot - do you have a crane? If so use the lifting eye and webbing / ratchet. A load leveler is a nice to have but not must have. All this stuff is pretty cheap at HF but you may not want to spend the money or go out at this time...

[ADDvanced]

I don't, but my neighbor across the street does, and I'm pretty sure he'll let me borrow it for a night.

Last night:
- Disconnected the throttle linkage off the bell crank, the one going forward.
- Disconnected all the fuel filter lines and fuel return line
- Disconnected the oil breather tubes
- Disconnected the wiring harness, CDI box, and whatever that lonesome brown wire is
- Disconnected the axles and zip tied bags over them

I then ran out of time. I think it's ready to drop. I have two paths right now:

1. Drop the engine/trans onto the ground, but the car is not high enough to remove it. I would then need to jack up the car using a 2x8 crossways under the rear of the car, right in front of the motor. Without the weight of the drivetrain I'm assuming I would be able to lift the car easily without damaging anything. Do I need jack extension slide in pad things for this or would jsut a 2x8 suffice?

2. Remove the muffler/bumper, and then see if I can get it out. I really don't want to do this if I can help it, the main reason being is that my engine has been a leaking smoking lump for years. The entire inside of the bumper and most of the engine compartment is coated in 2-5mm of black goo comprised of oil and road dust, and it's absolutely disgusting. (sidenote, cannot wait to pressure wash this thing with the engine out of it, I'm guessing I will remove 10lbs of ****)

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by ADDvanced

I don't, but my neighbor across the street does, and I'm pretty sure he'll let me borrow it for a night.

Last night:
- Disconnected the throttle linkage off the bell crank, the one going forward.
- Disconnected all the fuel filter lines and fuel return line
- Disconnected the oil breather tubes
- Disconnected the wiring harness, CDI box, and whatever that lonesome brown wire is
- Disconnected the axles and zip tied bags over them

I then ran out of time. I think it's ready to drop. I have two paths right now:

1. Drop the engine/trans onto the ground, but the car is not high enough to remove it. I would then need to jack up the car using a 2x8 crossways under the rear of the car, right in front of the motor. Without the weight of the drivetrain I'm assuming I would be able to lift the car easily without damaging anything. Do I need jack extension slide in pad things for this or would jsut a 2x8 suffice?

2. Remove the muffler/bumper, and then see if I can get it out. I really don't want to do this if I can help it, the main reason being is that my engine has been a leaking smoking lump for years. The entire inside of the bumper and most of the engine compartment is coated in 2-5mm of black goo comprised of oil and road dust, and it's absolutely disgusting. (sidenote, cannot wait to pressure wash this thing with the engine out of it, I'm guessing I will remove 10lbs of ****)

I was able to drag my chassis around the garage without the engine/trans in it by lifting with a floor jack and a 2x. The front end weighs nothing and the wheels allow it to roll, so you're just shifting weight forward as well as lifting. I wouldn't hesitate to do this.

Removing the rear bumper and trim panel will allow you to clean them without standing in the bay and getting all of the blown off muck all over your face/person. You're going to get filthy. You get to decide between just your hands and your whole body.

[patkeefe]

It is infinitely easier with the bumper off. It is fairly simple to remove the bumper; at least it is on my SC.

[shoooo32]

I'd pull the bumper. There's 40+ years of dirt and stones mixed with a few quarts of oil jammed up there. Kill two birds with one stone.

[ADDvanced]

Thanks for the advice guys! This happened last night, pretty stoked right now. Once I get it up on the stand I'm goign to check head studs and do a leakdown, should have more info after that.

[gsxrken]

Originally Posted by chrisbalich

for my very recent engine install, I didn't support the rear of the car with the torsion tubes. I installed the hockey puck rear pan jack points and lifted from there using a 2x8 across them both and lifting from the center with my floor jack... Since putting the engine back in, I've lifted the car by the newly installed rear jack-point and supported its weight with the jack stands directly on the hockey pucks.

Not sure I follow you- do you mean the jack pad that slides into the square in the rocker panel under the plastic cover? Picture might be worth a thousand words here. Thanks
-Sorry for hijack-

To the OP, nice job on removing the beast. Good luck with the refresh. And nice looking shop!

[patkeefe]

I see you managed to get the bumper off. Nice. I will be doing this same thing later today.

[chrisbalich]

Originally Posted by gsxrken

Not sure I follow you- do you mean the jack pad that slides into the square in the rocker panel under the plastic cover? Picture might be worth a thousand words here. Thanks
-Sorry for hijack-

To the OP, nice job on removing the beast. Good luck with the refresh. And nice looking shop!

I have one of those, but I've never used it.

I first installed hockey pucks in the 4 corners of the pan as lift points as posted here. Custom hoist/lift support pads

With the engine in the car, I lifted the car by the engine and then put jack-stands directly on the hockey pucks or on the lower shock mounts depending on what I'm doing.

With the engine out of the car, I bridge the rear two hockey pucks with a 2x8 and lift from the center with the floor jack and I can drag the car around like that.

Nice and easy.

OP: Glad you got it out. Now the real fun begins.

[ADDvanced]

Hey guys, wrenching right now. Took a ton of photos on the engine already w some suspect leak areas.

Anyway, I want to spit the trans and the engine, but I was unable to drive out the pin holding on the larger clutch arm. I’ve read that if I don’t get this arm off, the trans will not separate from the engine.

Everything’s on the floor. I can’t access that pin w everything together.

What do?

[patkeefe]

I don't recall any pins to drive out on the throw out fork. Got a photo of what it is you'tr trying to drive out?
Did you take this clip off so that the fork is free to swing out?: Remove the c clip, and pull the clutch lever off the splined shaft.

https://cdn4.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/911_clutch_replace/pic18.JPG