Parking brake dragging

[Canada Kev]

I haven't had a chance to look at this yet, but was hoping I could get some opinions before I start taking things apart.

I just came back from a 2000 mile road trip and when away, I started having some parking brake issues. It would start making rubbing noises when driving away after releasing the parking brake. A quick, gentle application of the e-brake handle while moving would quieten it right up.

Later, I noticed that after slowing from driving at speed and could hear things through the open window again, there was a dragging, rubbing sound that would go away if I applied the e-brake until it briefly made contact.

This doesn't appear to be an adjustment thing as the brake seems to hold fairly well, but maybe it is. Any suggestions about what to look at?

[tobluforu]

Hand brake cable connection to e-brake
Check this thread out, it shows how you adjust the emg brakes, super easy. While you have it jacked up make sure the cables are in good order. On the back side of the brake there is a long metal tube that fits over the cable right at the brake, make sure this in not broken and is in the right place. Mine broke and was binding. That thread also shows a white plastic piece that holds the cable in place, these snap.

[Bob Kontak]

Originally Posted by tobluforu

super easy..............

Easy overall but it is a time soak the first time through. You may have to replace something as tobluforu says, given your symptoms.

Just went through it when I replaced rotors on my SC. The pads (shoes I mean) had virtually no wear (as expected) but all hardware was nice and tight so something is different in your set up.

[gregwils]

Mine were hanging upon release, which sounds like your issue. They would slowly release as I drove, but I decided to get new ones and replace them when I had the motor out or another project, which would be my recommendation. The protective cable can get worn inside and not allow the steel cable to let go.

You could try spraying some lubricant on cable and let it seep down inside the case, but it will probably take multiple attempts to fix it. If you want, you could disconnect the cable at the wheel and do a better job lubricating and have a more immediate impact, but would guess any lubricant is going to be temporary.

The cables can be replaced with the motor in, but nothing on the firewall is easy to access with the motor in.

[Canada Kev]

OK, I finally had a chance to take this apart and have a look. The shoes, or actually just one of them, is quite worn. I couldn't see anything obvious that would cause the brake to drag. When I put the rotor back on and gave it a turn, it still dragged. I adjusted the brake so it would be as loose as possible (not against the drum) and it still was dragging. WTF?

I pulled the rotor again, and checked everything a bit more closely but nothing jumped out at me that it might not be correct, other than the worn pad. But then after a closer examination of that pad, I got to thinking. Why is just one pad worn? I did some wiggling and compressing and pulling of springs and came to the realization that for some reason the brake assembly doesn't want to stay centred in the drum.

What I suspect is happening is that when the brake is released it doesn't centre itself. When it was making noise after being parked and I just gave is a bit of a goose with the brake handle, it would jump off the turning drum. After some time driving down the highway, gravity and time would allow the pad to rest on the bottom of the drum. The pad assembly is fairly easy to move by hand up or down and it will more or less stay where I leave it.

The question I have now is what keeps the brake shoe assembly in the middle of the drum? Is there a spring that I can't see? Is it a matter of having corroded parts that just don't want to easily return to their resting position? Suggestions?

Should I just replace all the springs in there when I do the shoes with the expectation that that'll fix it all up? I mean, really, it's not a complex assembly. There isn't all that much to go wrong...

[JJ 911SC]

Kevin

Post some pictures

[lsf911]

Kevin,

You are correct, it is not a complicated system. I just went through mine a couple of months ago and replaced everything in my 83 SC.

The only thing that holds the shoes to the back plate is the Conical springs and pins. They are very visible. You should see them on the center of each shoe.

One thing you should check is the Expander. There is actually 2 on each side. The back one is not that easy to see. If that came off it would mess up the alignment.

Hope this helps,
Lou

[lsf911]

Scratch the expander idea....just noticed you have an 87. Not the same setup.

[Canada Kev]

Thanks everybody for your ideas and help. Because one of the driver's side pads had been dragging quite a bit, it was very worn. I decided to replace all four pads and all the stuff that doesn't require disconnection of the e-brake cable.

The parking brake assembly is pretty simple and not all that complicated. To tell the truth, I was initially a bit intimidated by all the springs and such and not knowing exactly what they were all supposed to do. Factor in my mysterious brake problem for which I couldn't see an obvious cause, and well... So I figured I'd just dive in and replace the whole damn thing.

Here's a bit of a pictorial to possibly help along the next person that feels a bit leery of tackling this project. If you decide to do this yourself and are a creative sort, you might come up with some fancy new words. It's a simple assembly, but some of those springs are a bit, uhh, reluctant to remove and replace. The whole job for me took about two hours on one side, and just over a hour on the other. But I took pics on that side, too.


Here are the new parts that will be going in on each side.


These are safety glasses. WEAR THEM. These springs can fly out in unexpected directions when you're trying to remove or replace them. A spring in the eye could ruin your whole day...


After you get your car up in the air and your wheels removed, remove the two phillips head screws that attach your brake rotors. They should come out easily, but on mine, one of the screws on each side really didn't want to move. I had to break out the impact screw driver. Sorry, no pic, but it just looks like a big screwdriver handle with a bit on one end and then you whack the other end with a hammer. They work great and aren't expensive. If you need to, you can get them at your FLAPS.


Remove the two 19mm bolts holding on the brake caliper. The top bolt is easy to access (and photograph ), but the lower one is short on space. A long box end wrench will work, but it's a real PITA to turn it a teensy bit and then remove the wrench and move it 1/12 of a turn and continue. This is where one of those ratcheting wrenches comes in handy. There's not really any room for a socket in there unless it's really slim. After they're out a bit, they should be able to turn by hand.


Remove the clip that affixes the brake line to the trailing arm where the flexible lines meet the hard ones. Mine came out with some persuasion and wiggling with a pair of vice grips clipped to the top and twisting a big flat head screw driver a bit in the opening that appears at the bottom.


Remove the caliper and slide the hard line through the hole where you removed the clip. Don't bend the hard line at all. Just rest the caliper where it's out of the way and is supported. At this point, you can remove the rotor. Don't hold it by the shiny part, as you will get grease and crap on it. Just grasp the centre (most likely dirty) part and pull straight out. If it won't move, ensure your parking brake isn't on. If that doesn't help, you may have to adjust your parking brake looser. We're going to loosen it off all the way, anyway, so you can do that now. I'd only do it as far as you need to get the rotor off, because it's much easier to do it with it off.

To back off the parking brake, rotate the rotor so the big hole is at the back side (towards the back of the car). Use a flash light and peek into the hole. You should be able to see the star adjuster. Take a large flat head screw driver and poke it in that hole so the blade engages the notches on the spur. Push it back (or forward, depending on your car) to turn the star wheel. If it won't turn or your rotor gets tighter, turn the star the other way a couple clicks. There is a remote possibility you'll have to turn it fully loose to remove the rotor.


When you get the rotor off, this is what things should kinda look like.


Here is the star adjuster. We need to adjust it fully loose, so that the adjuster unit is as short as possible. You can adjust it through the hole in the hub or just push the star spur with a driver from the rear.


You can do this with the rotor on, but this is what's under it.

[Canada Kev]

Now that you have the rotor off, we get to start taking the brake apart. The first thing to go is the star adjuster. Take a screw driver and slide it under the brake pad and pry it up gently. This will open the gap enough between the two pads to allow the adjuster to be removed. You might have to work it a bit to get it to come free. If you didn't adjust it down, it will be difficult to get the pads apart enough to remove it.


The adjuster. It's three pieces the star wheel which is threaded onto one end piece. The other end piece will just slide off. Careful not to lose it if it comes off unexpectedly.

After the adjuster is out, it's time to remove the return spring. That's the one right next to the adjuster. It's a real pain to get out. I don't recall exactly how I did it on the other brake, but on this one, I just cut it. I have new ones, and a used spare from the other side, so why suffer trying to remove it if I don't need to?


Next up, we need to remove the conical retaining spring. There are two, one on the top side and another underneath. If you're using jack stands, you're gonna have to get down there on your back for the lower one. Anyway, these aren't a big deal to remove. The washer on the end is what holds them on. There's just a rectangular pin in the centre that fits through a hole the same size and shape in the washer. Just hold the pin with some needle nose pliers, hold the outside edge of the washer with some vice grips or regular pliers. Compress the spring to allow the pin to protrude more and turn the washer until the pin will slide through the hole. Easy eh? Not really. These springs aren't that high of tension, so I found it easier to do it by hand with no tools. You almost need three hands to do this with tools.

Anyway, I just put a finger through one of the holes in the dust shield to put pressure on the back side of that pin. Then I compressed the spring with my two thumbs and turned it at the same time until it lined up. If you can get it a little way and the rectangular pin is out of its well it sits in, you're out of the woods. Take a little rest so your fingers can recover and do it again to get it out the rest of the way. Here's one of the places your newly invented words come in to play.


I didn't get any good pics of this next step but this one shows the double coil spring and the expanders. With the conical springs off you can push the pads to the side to relieve pressure on the double coil return spring that sits at the front of the brake kind of behind the expander. It should be pretty easy at this point to remove that spring by doing some gymnastics with the pads to get it to unhook from the pad. Take a moment to look at the spring and remember which way the coils are wound. I don't know if it matters, but if the spring is inverted, the coil direction is different.

I didn't replace the expanders on my brakes because I didn't want to mess with the brake cable. I have a set in case my brake issue isn't rectified, but I just didn't want to deal with it right now.

[Canada Kev]

OK, everything is off. I decided to clean things up a bit before I installed all the new stuff. I wasn't too worried about making it look super pretty because this is the inside of the brakes and it's going to be dirty again in short order. I drive my car. In the sun, in the rain, in whatever. She's no garage queen.


OK, let's put this thing back together. This may not be the "correct" way, but it's how I did it, and it was certainly easier than the other side.

I took the top pad and rested it on the hub in place with the pins on the front engaged in the slots of the expanders. Make sure the conical spring pin is through the hole of the metal part underneath the pad.

Now to get the conical spring in place and use some more of those words. Again, I didn't use tools because I need another hand. Spring narrow end down against the pad over the pin. Hold pin pushed out as far as you can with a finger behind the dust shield and place washer on wide end of spring with the rectangular hole lined up with the end of the pin. Now the tough part. Hold the pin and compress the spring with your two thumbs. When it's through the hole in the washer try to turn the washer without turning the pin. Even if you get this partway accomplished and it holds the spring compressed, but it's not rotated all the way, take a breather and rest your thumbs. The hard part is done. Do it again and continue to turn the spring until the pin drops into the little well in the washer. One down.

Take your double coil spring and get it into the proper hole in the pad (remember how the old one was). Take the second pad and get the other end of the spring hooked into that pad. Lower the second pad around to the bottom of the hub while trying to thread the conical spring pin through its hole and engaging the pivots on the pad for the expanders into their slots. Once it's kinda in place, it's time to do the conical spring for this pad. It's the same process as the other one.


Once that's complete, you're almost home free. Ensure that the pivots for the expanders are properly engaged in their slots on both pads (all four pivots). If not, you can pry them open a little bit to get them in there.


Once that's all done, it's time to replace the install the rear retaining spring. This was a PITA to get out (unless you just cut it off) but it is much easier to get back in. Take one end and hook it in the hole on the top pad so the spring is hanging down. Now, if you don't have them on, PUT ON YOUR SAFETY GLASSES. Use your needle nose pliers and grasp the bottom of the spring a little bit up from the hook but not on the coiled section. Hold on really f'n tight. Pull it down and at the same time push it inward toward its hole on the lower pad. It should go all the way into the hole. If it only kind of went in like mine did, just tap it the rest of the way with your screwdriver.


Now to put the star adjuster back in. It's best if the slots on each end are facing the same way. Make sure it's screwed down all the way to make it as small as possible. Mine wouldn't screw down completely because it had a bunch o'crap in the threads. i cleaned them out with a brush and some brake clean. I then greased up the threads a bit so it would turn smoothly and hopefully wouldn't get gummed up again. It probably will, but at least it shouldn't corrode.


To get the adjuster back in place, the pads have to be pried apart enough to get it in. There's probably some special tool to make this easier, but if one of the pads moved away from the hub enough one end of the adjuster can be placed on the pad while the other is pushed in on the other pad. It should look like this when done.


At this point the rotor can be replaced. It probably wouldn't be a bad idea to give it a wipe with some brake clean. Make sure you line it up so the big hole for adjustment lines up with the big hole in the thing your studs are in, and the screw holes are in the right place. Thread in the screws that hold the rotor on. They don't have to be super tight, just enough to hold it on. Your wheel nuts will hold all this together. It should kinda look like this.


Replace your calipers and brake line retaining clip and wheels. And have a beer. Or two. You deserve it.

I hope this helps anyone contemplating this job. It's not that difficult, but it's kinda hard on the fingers. It's easy to lose springs and stuff if they go flying so maybe get a spare when you order parts.

Some of the really observant may have noticed that the star adjuster on my before pic is upside down from from the after shot. These can go in either way, it doesn't matter. However, it will make a difference in the direction you move your screwdriver when adjusting the brakes later. When you have the rotor on, you can't see enough of it to tell which way to turn to loosen or tighten. The way I put them on is so that when I push the screwdriver handle towards the back of the car, it will loosen or back off the adjuster. If I move it towards the front, it will tighten the brakes. The way they were when I started, the star was on the bottom of the adjuster on both sides. This would cause the loosen/tighten directions for each side of the car to be different. Well, kinda. To loosen (initially), the screw driver had to be pushed to the right on both sides. This meant the rear for the driver's side and the front for the passenger. Now, on both sides, to loosen, push it towards the back. I don't think there's any wrong way to have them, but this way I know how it is and it makes sense to me.

[JJ 911SC]

Nice work Kev

The only thing I notice while doing mine (as you notice) is that the star adjuster will work either way but by putting one side reverse of the other one is the direction (going backward with the screw driver) will tight them up as per the adjustment right up in the Porsche manual.

2 of my expenders (1 per side) were broken, no wonder I had no E brake.

[Canada Kev]

Yeah, my expanders appear to be doing what they're supposed to (I think). I suppose it's conceivable that all four are messed up. Anyway, I have new expanders and springs in the event that things decline quickly back to the way it was. Otherwise, it's all good, now.

[tobluforu]

Damn good write up.

[Canada Kev]

Thanks. I just wanted to show all those that didn't like the looks of all the springs and stuff in the parking brake assembly that it's a pretty basic exercise to overhaul it. I'd call it a two banana job.

[OneMore]

Amazing work documenting everything for the next one.

Thanks a lot!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JSV798]

When the handbrake was binding on my '78SC it was the inner cable binding on the outer sheath. No amount of adjustment will cure this. Over the years I have replaced both handbrake cables. Suggest that this is your problem.

[Canada Kev]

Originally Posted by JSV798

When the handbrake was binding on my '78SC it was the inner cable binding on the outer sheath. No amount of adjustment will cure this. Over the years I have replaced both handbrake cables. Suggest that this is your problem.

Is this directed at me? No, sir, that wasn't the problem. That issue was fixed seven years ago when I originally did this writeup. But thank you for your suggestion. Hopefully it will help another that has a similar situation.