No start after major service-72T

[NYNick]

Car sat for a few years but it started a month ago before I started servicing it for some leaks.

2.7 RS spec with Webers

Drained all the oil and refilled with 8 quarts so far. It sat with the valve covers off for a week or two.
Oil filter of course
New plugs snugged to 18 ft lbs
New Beru wires
New Beru Dist cap (changed back to old one to see if that would help)
Old Bosch rotor (and now old cap as well)
Adjusted valves
New gaskets on sump and all valve covers
Cleaned air cleaners
Replaced transmission oil
Cleaned entire bottom of engine.

Removed old batteries. They're dead.

I tried my Li-pho battery and the engine seems to struggle just to turn. Almost like it's having a hard time turning. It only turns a little bit each time. It's not turning over to even try to start.

I hooked it up to my running Landcruiser to see if I could get more power to it; again, the engine seems to struggle to even turn. Just advances a little bit at a time.

The engine does turn over by hand, but I do have to depress the belt a bit to help. It does turn though. It got more difficult to turn after I put in the new plugs after the valve adjustment.

Did I tighten the valves too much or something? I used the feeler gauge and did them twice to make sure I got them right.

I did nothing to the old belt but I have a new one on hand. Why is it having such a hard time just turning?

Any help would be appreciated. Frustrated to spend all this time and now it won't fire up.

Nick

[pmax]

Did you check the wiring to the starter or gnd ?

[HarryD]

You need to find out if something is bound or you gave a compression problem.

I would pull the plugs, add some MMO, Put plugs back in, let soak for a day or so and then try to crank. If it still struggles then there is something deep in your motor fighting back. If it turns over freely I think it would try to start.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by pmax

Did you check the wiring to the starter or gnd ?

No, but I will. It seems like the starter is having a hard time pushing the engine though. It does turn a few inches at a time, just not continuously.

Thx Max.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by HarryD

You need to find out if something is bound or you gave a compression problem.

I would pull the plugs, add some MMO, Put plugs back in, let soak for a day or so and then try to crank. If it still struggles then there is something deep in your motor fighting back. If it turns over freely I think it would try to start.

Also good advice. I'll also switch back to the old plugs to see if that'll help.

[yelcab1]

If it were my car, this is what I would do.

1. Ensure that I did not adjust the valves on the wrong cycle. Meaning, #1 TDC compression stroke is really compression stroke. Check the valve clearance.
2. Remove the plugs, turn the engine over by hand to make sure that it turns over easy enough
3. Remove and clean all ground connections to the engine, especially the big fat one from body to gearbox.
4. Test the starter to see if it is still good
5. Test the battery to see if it still holds charge.
6. Measure the battery voltage while the car is trying to crank. see how low the voltage drops.

After all that, the engine has to crank over at a good clip.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

If it were my car, this is what I would do.

1. Ensure that I did not adjust the valves on the wrong cycle. Meaning, #1 TDC compression stroke is really compression stroke. Check the valve clearance.
2. Remove the plugs, turn the engine over by hand to make sure that it turns over easy enough
3. Remove and clean all ground connections to the engine, especially the big fat one from body to gearbox.
4. Test the starter to see if it is still good
5. Test the battery to see if it still holds charge.
6. Measure the battery voltage while the car is trying to crank. see how low the voltage drops.

After all that, the engine has to crank over at a good clip.

Thank you. I determined I had TDC after advice in this thread.

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1048033-valve-adjustment-72t.html

I then adjusted the valves accordingly. I like your theory though, but am pretty sure I got it correct per John and Al's advice. See the pix.

My batteries are dead. I've been trying to jump it.

The starter was good a month ago.

I'll check the gear box ground.

THANK YOU!!!

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

If it were my car, this is what I would do.

1. Ensure that I did not adjust the valves on the wrong cycle. Meaning, #1 TDC compression stroke is really compression stroke. Check the valve clearance.
2. Remove the plugs, turn the engine over by hand to make sure that it turns over easy enough
3. Remove and clean all ground connections to the engine, especially the big fat one from body to gearbox.
4. Test the starter to see if it is still good
5. Test the battery to see if it still holds charge.
6. Measure the battery voltage while the car is trying to crank. see how low the voltage drops.

After all that, the engine has to crank over at a good clip.

As you can see from the pix in the other thread, I used the mark on the RIGHT of the two marks on the pulley as TDC. Is it possible TDC is the mark on the left?

[hughc]

Originally Posted by NYNick

As you can see from the pix in the other thread, I used the mark on the RIGHT of the two marks on the pulley as TDC. Is it possible TDC is the mark on the left?

The mark on the left is TDC
.

[juanbenae]

what are you doing with the second battery's +/- (now not installed) leads while you have a single battery hooked up and jumping it? im not sure what you are suppose to do with them, but maybe somebody smarter than me will know what should be done with those when trying to start a two battery car with a single battery hooked up.

im not suggesting they should be connected, but possibly try the jumper cables on those leads with the other battery in place and connected. seems to reason a two battery car might struggle with a single battery jumping effort.


best way to confirm TDC is peek at the rotor location in the dizzy when you start to see it's lined up with cylinder being adjusted firing location.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by hughc

The mark on the left is TDC
.

Not according to my pulley. I just checked with my mirror and Z1 is the mark on the right. Same as Johnny Walker said in his response.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by juanbenae

what are you doing with the second battery's +/- (now not installed) leads while you have a single battery hooked up and jumping it? im not sure what you are suppose to do with them, but maybe somebody smarter than me will know what should be done with those when trying to start a two battery car with a single battery hooked up.

im not suggesting they should be connected, but possibly try the jumper cables on those leads with the other battery in place and connected. seems to reason a two battery car might struggle with a single battery jumping effort.


best way to confirm TDC is peek at the rotor location in the dizzy when you start to see it's lined up with cylinder being adjusted firing location.

Yeah well, my dizzy lines up when the pulley lines up with the mark on the right, which is marked as Z1.

[HarryD]

Quick test. Pull plugs and crank. If turns freely, something to do with timing or valves, blocked intake/exhaust. If still hard, need to look deeper.

[hughc]

Originally Posted by NYNick

Not according to my pulley. I just checked with my mirror and Z1 is the mark on the right. Same as Johnny Walker said in his response.

Sorry about that.
I was thinking of my 3.0 sc.

[Rawknees'Turbo]

NastyNick, the fact that you could turn the engine by hand while adding a little extra tension to the belt means there is nothing wrong with your engine that is causing the slow cranking. And no way, no how would an over tight valve lash adjustment, even every single rocker, cause what you are describing (remember, the factory specified lash is .004" +/-.002" - that is a range from .002-.006, and not even at zero clearance and beyond would you be making piston to valve contact). Also, remember that the piston does not need to be perfectly on TDC of the compression stroke (must be on compression stroke, however), either (aka - timing mark scenario is not critical). In other words, you did not mess anything up.

The starter is simply not drawing enough apms (something wrong with the starter, the starter solenoid, the wiring, including grounds - corrosion on wire ends), and/or there aren't enough amps available for it to draw (maybe Captain Caveman is onto something with his above post about your batteries).

A quick load test (not like THAT! ) - put multimeter on battery and note resting voltage, and then turn ignition switch to "start" and see what the meter reading drops to while it is attempting to crank.

* Funny, I just noticed that YellowCab already mentioned the load () test above.

** Just a thought - did you happen to stuff a pair of shorts in the fan shroud and forget about them (the ones you soiled while re-torquing yer head studs while praying to not hear or feel the telltale "ping" of breakage)?!?! Maybe that nastiness is causing a mechanical obstruction!!!

[NYNick]

Thanks everyone. To say I was pissed off, frustrated and angry yesterday is an understatement. You have no idea how many hours I have into this job.

Ron, the engine isn't cranking or turning over. It's just kind of weakly and trying to turn but stopping. Even with my Landcruiser running attached to it with jumpers.

Today, I will test the voltage drop per Ronnie and Yellow Cab first thing. I'll then hook up another battery so there's two and give that a whirl. In fact, I may do that first or gerry rig the second set of battery connections.

I will then re-do the valve adjustment paying strict attention pulley position. (I'm sure I did this right last time but...) I know Ron doesn't think it can be causing the issue, but I have a Stromski gauge now and might as well for peace of mind. I also re-torqued those top head studs after the valve adjustments.

I'll get under the car and check the transmission ground strap.

I'll pull the plugs and try to crank. Was gonna do that anyway before the valves.

But a question. When the pulley and Valve #1 are at TDC along with the distributor pointing to its #1 notch, how do I insure that is in fact it's compression stroke? How do I tell?

Thanks to all of you. I'll keep you posted.

Nick

[rwest]

Hi Nick,

For adjusting the valves, just look where the rocker foot is resting on the cam lobe; it needs to be in the back round section not on the “hill” or top of the lobe.

Good luck- I think you have a starter or power issue if you can turn the engine by hand with a little pressure on the belt.

[yelcab1]

I think you have battery problems after reading through all this. Do the load test, it will validate the theory.

As for your other question, if you are at Z1, then you are at TDC number 1. And you should be able to feel the rocker arm slightly loose by rocking it with your finger. If the dizzy is also pointing at 1, then that cylinder fires.

[NYNick]

Originally Posted by yelcab1

I think you have battery problems after reading through all this. Do the load test, it will validate the theory.

As for your other question, if you are at Z1, then you are at TDC number 1. And you should be able to feel the rocker arm slightly loose by rocking it with your finger. If the dizzy is also pointing at 1, then that cylinder fires.

IT LIVES!

I hooked up a charged but weak battery on the passenger side and then my Landcruiser to the left side. Hooked up the multimeter and got zero voltage drop. Good sign!

Then, it turned over!

After a few nervous tries, it fired right up! There's a ton of smoke coming out of the left heat exchanger, but the engine looks dry. Woo hoo!

The front wheel weights rub against the wheels at left and right lock...new tires etc...gotta fix that.

The brakes are soft. Gotta re-bleed. Rebuilt those calipers myself.

But man, she sounds good. Thanks fellas! Ronnie and Caveman had it right.

[NYNick]

BTW, is the best way to get that oil out of that heat exchanger a 30 minute ITU?