Is this what Porsche and the "911" have lost sight of?

RickM · RickM's Garage

Recent threads have prompted me to post this refreshing "philosophy". Is this what Porsche has lost sight of?

From the Ferrari Website:

"For years, from the old 166 or 250 GT sport saloons to, somewhat later, with the GTO or F40, Ferraris have remained Spartan in terms of their trim, even though they had luxurious touches, to focuse entirely on performance in which every single gram of excess weight was eliminated. The other distinctive characteristic is the red body colour, an unmistakable sign of a Maranello car.
But by the early ‘90s this way of conceiving cars seemed rather limited. Owning a Ferrari must give all-round pleasure and so any decision to limit comfort, usability and interior space excessively no longer made sense. The same went for colours.
This change of thinking led to models like the 456 GT and 550 Maranello (and today‘s 575M Maranello), or the F355 and, later, 360 Modena eight-cylinder models.
Ten years on, this progressive mutation has now given way to a certain feeling of nostalgia for a Ferrari with no frills, which models like the F50 and Enzo have continued to express even though they were produced in limited runs.
With the Challenge Stradale Ferrari again proposes the very essence of a racing car. Only features that were absolutely essential to the performance and safety were built into the car; the rest were left out. The end result is an extremely lightweight, fast sports saloon, with a true racing-style set-up and impeccable handling: a model offering top-level performance that incorporates experience gained over the many thousands of kilometres covered by drivers in Challenge Championships throughout the world and advanced testing with the 360 GTs that have participated in the FIA World Championship.
There‘s a choice of two Challenge Stradale versions: a more extreme one with racing seats and sliding windows, last used on the F40, and another, fitted with lighter, wrap-around, leather seats and wind-down windows."

Superman · 10-23-2003, 06:33 AM

This sounds strikingly similar to another automaker.

masraum · 10-23-2003, 06:38 AM

GT3, GT3 RS, and GT2

n8marx · n8marx's Garage

I've driven my friend's F355 no sunroof coupe. If Ferrari thinks that car has made too many concessions to comfort then they are a completely different automaker than Porsche.

Todd Simpson · 10-23-2003, 08:14 AM

Quote:

GT3, GT3 RS, and GT2

...and even a regular 996 is still lighter than a 993.

JSDSKI · 10-23-2003, 09:09 AM

Sounds great. But, what is the possible worldwide market? 1,000 ? 2,000 ? Actually "the expensive accessories" have more profit margin than chassis and mechanical parts - removing all that stuff actually reduces profit per unit. Since Porsche has a limited number of units it can build per year - they have no economic incentive to build a LW.

They'd have to charge more for a "stripped" version. Which is what they've always done, even in the days of the original RS. And what they'll do for the new 996 "RS". But a true LW "stripped" 911 varient?

We'll just have to keep making our own... it's all I could afford anyway!

dd74 · 10-23-2003, 10:02 AM

One item no one has mentioned is the Lotus Elise. My belief is it will do very well in the U.S. market, particularly the L.A. market, which every automaker cares about.

We all know what the Elise is: stripped, no frills, light and very fast. Unfortunately, this car will probably suffer the fate of "hip and trendy" buyers, i.e. Hollywood wannabees, but hell, what difference does that make to Lotus when their cars are sold out?

But I digress: if the Elise sells well, other high-end automakers will take notice and "wish" they could do the same with their existing line. I say "wish" because save for BMW, Mercedes and Audi, there is little doubt Porsche, Maseratti and Ferrari have priced themselves right out of the league that is the Elise and can be a small, no frills variant from BMW, et al. All Porsche can offer at the Elise's price point is possibly a stripped out Boxster S, but who cares? An Elise would tear a Boxster S to ribbons if driven properly, and Boxster drivers/owners hardly know how to shift gears anyway.

I agree with Noah about the stripped down 911. It'd be great; a fabulous idea. Problem is, unless Porsche already has something in the works, they'll have to build a new model from the ground up, which would cost billions of dollars. Ferrari? No chance at all that they could pull this off - the lowest priced F-car is, what, $150,000? I'd love to get a Ferrari for the cost of an Elise, but stripped out performance cars cost a lot of initial money to a car company if they're not already in the works.

It looks like Lotus has this market cornered all to itself.

JSDSKI · 10-23-2003, 03:22 PM

The Elise pricing I've seen (on UK websites) is 39,000 - 48,000 (US). This is on a non federalized version - pretty close to Boxster, AudiTT range by the time the car is US ready. I dunno. I can't see them manufacturing enough to sell 500 units a year in the US. With regard to tearing Boxster's to ribbons, although I have a lot of confidence that Porsche could "tune" the Boxster to match or beat the Lotus (if they were actually interested in that) maybe in the short term, Porsche could challenge it to run for 24 hours without overheating or losing electrics

dd74 · 10-23-2003, 03:41 PM

Start with a hardtop Boxster, gut it like a salmon, stick in very uncomfortable race seats, tune the motor to 300 hp, sell it for $40K tops.

Let's see if this happens. The Elise will be a hit, and of course, Porsche will owe me residuals when they realize potential market share loss.

I'll take frequent flyer miles, please.

onewhippedpuppy · 10-23-2003, 06:31 PM

You may have to do it without any electric accesories, but with the Toyota engine in the American versions the Elise should last at least 24 hours, if not outlast the entire car.

Lukesportsman · 10-24-2003, 08:17 AM

I agree with onewhippedpuppy, with the Toyo engine and tranny this car should be dependable. Sure, the gear shift sticker might still come off in a test drivers hand. Sure, the tach and turn signal might be on the same circuit (British car guys can appreciate that one), but there is very little else to go wrong. That is the point of this car, no frills! No power seats, no power windows, no power roof, no climate control just performance.

Lotus has one a few races too, so I would not challenge it too easily with a fairly heavy Boxster. Those brakes may not be too happy in the end. Only one thing that beats bigger brakes, LESS weight!