69 Front Fender Cooler

[Turpin]

Hi guys,
I have a 69 that still has its dual battery boxes. I am curious what people do with them when they install an oil cooler in the passenger front fender. I recently mounted one and there is no room for a fan or room to direct air flow from the air horn opening.

Thanks,
Russell

[patkeefe]

I think either you buy a complete kit from somewhere like BAT or Elephant Racing, or you cobble together a cooler fabricating your own brackets, sheet metal shroud, fan relay, etc.

When you say you recently mounted "one", do you mean right side battery, or oil cooler? Doesn't the battery tray protrude into the space where a fan would mount on a 69?

[TRE Cup]

Pat, your response is not what the op asked for.
He has a cooler and a good portion of the unit is blocked by the battery box on his car. 69-73 models have dual battery boxes and the passenger side occludes part of a cooler install. 911S, and optioned models fitted with coolers from the factory, have this problem as well.
There is no room for a fan and in fact, if you are fitting larger tires, the cooler shields get damaged when backing up while steering left.
The mounting solution is to place the cooler almost touching the battery box (but not actually as that may cause a rub through problem over miles of use)

There is no practical way to get more air to the cooler, unless you remove the battery box and weld over the gaping hole left by it's absence. Then you have room to place a fan
FWIW - the factory cooler set up was adequate for the majority of street driving, with stock displacement / output engines.
Going to the track? You will probably find pics of various 911s with the headlamp removed on the passenger side, and the back of the bucket cut out to get air directly to the upper half of the cooler

[blucille]

I'm with TRE Cup on this one.

I've had many LWB cars with oil coolers and some with somewhat larger than stock motors, 3.0, 2.7, etc.

I had a '72 once with no front cooler, with a 3.0 big port motor, and it never got terribly hot until the next owner started driving it.

My current '72 (blucille) came with a 3.0 motor, I put a high compression 2.7 MFI, twin plug motor in. The car seldom goes above 180 degrees.

I've never cut the battery boxes.

Blucille had some rubbing issues when I ran RE-11's, so I did as TRE cup describes, I moved the cooler very close to the battery box.....problems solved, and it still runs cool.

Here's my value-add.....these days, it's easy to find a single battery solution, like a battery from a Mazda Miata that has enough CCA power, and yet would easily fit into the driver's side battery box.....if you remove the passenger's side battery box, you would then have ample air flow to the oil cooler.

I still don't think you'll need a fan until you get a BIG motor squeezed in, my guess is a 3.2 or greater.

[Turpin]

Guys,
Thanks for the information...removing the battery box is what I was thinking...just hate to modify it.

The reason I am asking is because the engine seems to be running warmer than normal so I added the SC style cooler. It helps maintain oil temps at idle but under load the oil temps climb. I am not sure how warm it would get because I've chickened out when the oil starts to reach 220F. When I am at a stop light you can see the oil temp gauge reduce several degrees...Also air temps here in South Carolina are ~98F.

Using a thermal gun I measured the oil coming out of the cooler at 120F when oil temps are reading 215F at the oil temp sensor. Is 120F cool enough?

Thanks!
Russell

[Turpin]

Originally Posted by blucille

I'm with TRE Cup on this one.

I've had many LWB cars with oil coolers and some with somewhat larger than stock motors, 3.0, 2.7, etc.

I had a '72 once with no front cooler, with a 3.0 big port motor, and it never got terribly hot until the next owner started driving it.

My current '72 (blucille) came with a 3.0 motor, I put a high compression 2.7 MFI, twin plug motor in. The car seldom goes above 180 degrees.

I've never cut the battery boxes.

Blucille had some rubbing issues when I ran RE-11's, so I did as TRE cup describes, I moved the cooler very close to the battery box.....problems solved, and it still runs cool.

Here's my value-add.....these days, it's easy to find a single battery solution, like a battery from a Mazda Miata that has enough CCA power, and yet would easily fit into the driver's side battery box.....if you remove the passenger's side battery box, you would then have ample air flow to the oil cooler.

I still don't think you'll need a fan until you get a BIG motor squeezed in, my guess is a 3.2 or greater.

Blucille,
Thanks for the reply. The engine is a 2.5L with little mods. The engine normally runs 180/190F which I believe is pretty good. I checked the valves, timing and fixed a few vacuum leaks but with load/ acceleration the temp gauge climbs...

[blucille]

there are people who tell you that, especially when running synthetic oil, 240 is acceptable....I do get nervous when I see 220+ on my 3.6 powered SC

[Turpin]

Originally Posted by blucille

there are people who tell you that, especially when running synthetic oil, 240 is acceptable....I do get nervous when I see 220+ on my 3.6 powered SC

Blucille,
Yep...I am right there with ya. 220 I am nervous unless I am at the track or understand why the temps are high.

[patkeefe]

Originally Posted by patkeefe

Doesn't the battery tray protrude into the space where a fan would mount on a 69?

Sorry for any confusion. I guess I should have put this question in front of my answer.
How many years did they have dual batteries?
And, if you're getting 120F out of the cooler, it works pretty well.

[blucille]

battery boxes were on both sides from 1969 thru the end of the 1973 model year, basically, all LWB long-hood cars

[Turpin]

Originally Posted by patkeefe

Sorry for any confusion. I guess I should have put this question in front of my answer.
How many years did they have dual batteries?
And, if you're getting 120F out of the cooler, it works pretty well.

Patkeefe,
Thanks for the note on the cooler temp. I was thinking that 120 isn't bad especially with 98F air temp.

Thanks,
Russell

[LakeCleElum]

For what it's worth. I have a high compression 3.2 in my 73.5 with dual boxes. I have added the factory trombone cooler (no fan) . It fits fine with the boxes in place. My temps rarely even get to 200 degrees, even on a 90 degree day.

Also, my old 2.4 used to run pretty hot when I had no external cooler. When I removed it, I found the engine cooler was covered with dirt and oil. I always wondered it all one needs to do is clean the engine cooler?????

[TRE Cup]

lakecleelum: Does the oil temp sender match the guage? If running the original 73 guages, and if you have a the chrome plated temp sender, then they are not matched. You should be running the brass sender

[Turpin]

Originally Posted by LakeCleElum

For what it's worth. I have a high compression 3.2 in my 73.5 with dual boxes. I have added the factory trombone cooler (no fan) . It fits fine with the boxes in place. My temps rarely even get to 200 degrees, even on a 90 degree day.

Also, my old 2.4 used to run pretty hot when I had no external cooler. When I removed it, I found the engine cooler was covered with dirt and oil. I always wondered it all one needs to do is clean the engine cooler?????

LakeCleElum,
You are correct...200F has been my experience as well in 90F air temps. I am comfortable with 200F. For some reason I am starting to see 220F. The front fender cooler is new so it is clean.

Thanks for the data point on the battery box. It is good to know that yours is working.

Not sure why temps are now climbing...maybe carbs are running lean under load...

[Turpin]

Originally Posted by TRE Cup

lakecleelum: Does the oil temp sender match the guage? If running the original 73 guages, and if you have a the chrome plated temp sender, then they are not matched. You should be running the brass sender

TRE:
Yep. Sender matches gauge. Also verified it with a thermal gun.

Thanks!
Russell

[7783911]

dont want to hijack but have a questions for Turpin...

I have a 77 with 3.0 sc engine and in stop go traffic on very hot days (95F) i see 225 sometimes...my garage isnt overly concerned but i am now wondering about correct sender versus gauge...is there a good source to indicate the correct combination if i can read the minuscule ID on the gauge and then determine if correct temp sender?

[LakeCleElum]

Originally Posted by TRE Cup

lakecleelum: Does the oil temp sender match the guage? If running the original 73 guages, and if you have a the chrome plated temp sender, then they are not matched. You should be running the brass sender

Yes, John Walker did the swap for me......

[Bill Verburg]

You could always change to an RS front bumper and add a valance mounted cooler

[spyerx]

I have a 71 with a 2.7.
It would run 210-220 when i first got it. Engine is clean oil cooler works
I installed elephant racing carrera cooler and kept the battery box. Not exactly plug and play. Required refab of bracket to make work and clear tires due to battery box. Needed to make 2 new front hoses. Side pipes and engine wide were good. End install is good.
This lowered oil to 180 but would still creep to 200
I replaced the case oil thermostat and car runs dead solid on 180 unless I’m pushing the car hard and then never gets above 190. Even in slow traffic on a hot day. Or climbing a grade 80mph in 90+ weather.

I’m in SoCal

Make sure your case thermostat is good
Make sure engine cooler is clean

Anyway, my setup doesn’t need a fan, car is running nice and cool now

[Turpin]

Sorry for the delay in updating this thread.

The problem was a bad oil thermostat. Replaced the thermostat and the engine is staying around 180 to 200F.

Thanks guys!