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-   -   Show us your "old school go faster" trick for your engine! (http://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911-technical-forum/1064827-show-us-your-old-school-go-faster-trick-your-engine.html)

-Levi- 06-20-2020 03:55 PM

My trick.
I put a 3,6 in place of my 3.0
Problem solved
Lol


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592697264.jpg

Aircooled4evr 06-21-2020 01:08 AM

Quote:

= Levi-;10914563]
My trick.
I put a 3,6 in place of my 3.0
Problem solved
Lol
Cool engine! :cool:
my problem is though.. I can't help but tune every engine I get near ... :D
And something I've learned with other cars. If they get too strong, it becomes more and more rare that I pull it out hard in the gears.
I can't help but do that... every single time..
It simply goes too fast on public roads, where it will spend 95% of the time.
I still love speed! But the older I get, responsibility creeps in ... damn it... :confused::D

This is also why I keep the original engine size of 2993cc
It has just so much (or lack of) torque, so I can (must) really rev it high! Snigger snigger.... Sounds like I'm a wild racer, I'm not!! :D
I just love the sound of the flat 6 engine at 7000 rpm

Aircooled4evr 06-21-2020 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas (Post 10914489)
Balance the engine by matching rods+pistons to get as even as possible weights. Then there is some formula for having the heavier ones in a particular location. Just something I've heard along the way. Certainly can't do any harm...

There's a good advice again!
I balance my engines. The last until 0.2 of a gram, (very proud I must say!)
But I am not aware that there can be an advantage in putting different weights in different places! Tell os more pleace ... :)

Aircooled4evr 06-21-2020 02:11 AM

I have prepared the engine with "boat tail web" (?), to reduce oil/air drag.
Are there other tricks you can use in the oil system?

I had machined my old flywheel, but I was unsure if it ended up getting too thin on the tread surface. (it was worn so I "licked" it 0.3mm, and I think a previous owner has done something similar)
So I bought a new one, along with an aluminum clutch instead.

I'm going to lighten the new flywheel a bit too, because I want to use it as a crank trigger. machining it for 60/2 behind the starter ring for the ECU.

icarp 06-21-2020 04:53 AM

Mads , about the 20-21 cam , this is a DME type cam . duration is low for the performance that you want . I think you would be better off selling the much loved 20-21 and then buying a better suited for ITB 464-465 cam from web. Just a thought
Ian

Aircooled4evr 06-21-2020 07:38 AM

What is a "DME type cam"?
I think I'm ok with English, but not quite so much with Tek-English .... I'm sorry. http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...eys/face76.gif
Yeah ... I'm a little worried myself. regarding the static compression, with this "mild" camshaft along with 10.8 - 11.5: 1 pistons ...
Ok, I'll try to read up on your proposed 464-465 cam! :)
It is very important to me that I understand the exact interplay between all components of the engine, according to my requirements for its character.

fred cook 06-21-2020 07:45 AM

When I built a 3.3SS for my SC, I added a contact switch to the throttle linkage so that at wide open throttle the cold start valve would spray extra fuel and richen the mixture. This was to help prevent a burned valve from a lean mixture. It is easy enough to do, just make a bracket to mount the switch and run wires from the switch to the CSV. Leave the original wiring to the CSV in place. At WOT the CSV opens and will lower the mixture from about 14.5 down to about 13.0. Since it only opens the valve at WOT the fuel mileage is not affected much.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1592754275.jpg

Aircooled4evr 06-21-2020 07:56 AM

I'm a little "concerned" that this thread is just going to be a build thread for my engine..:confused:
maybe I should delete my answers about my engine?
I really want to hear (and see pictures) from people who have tried different go faster stuff.

How about knife edge on crank? and or polishing the same? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...eys/gitaar.gif
I would like to try it, if it gives any thing at all?!
It should also give something (or a lot)!, as I'm probably going to have to rebuild all the bearing surfaces on an otherwise super fine crank .... I'm not afraid of the work! in fact, rather that, than expensive parts.. :D

Aircooled4evr 06-21-2020 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fred cook (Post 10915202)
When I built a 3.3SS for my SC, I added a contact switch to the throttle linkage so that at wide open throttle the cold start valve would spray extra fuel and richen the mixture. This was to help prevent a burned valve from a lean mixture. It is easy enough to do, just make a bracket to mount the switch and run wires from the switch to the CSV. Leave the original wiring to the CSV in place. At WOT the CSV opens and will lower the mixture from about 14.5 down to about 13.0. Since it only opens the valve at WOT the fuel mileage is not affected much.

Cool Fred Cook!
what a simple and good idea!

RWebb 06-21-2020 09:42 AM

There is not a lot of oil/air drag in dry sump motors.

See my previous post.

OTOH, if you just want to have fun without much consequence to hp, go right ahead.

Some heads do flow better than others however...

Glenfield 06-21-2020 10:12 AM

You’ll no doubt get some great fodder here but you might also find it beneficial to also find your way to Performance Development website (Neil Harvey) and read his extensive library of articles on this this. More focused on how to get a final squeeze out of the lemon but you’ll find the technical details on:
- knife edge cranks
- crank dampers
- polishing and flowing heads
- Coating cams
- Asymmetrical cams

To name a few. Some good stuff there

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aircooled4evr (Post 10915210)
I'm a little "concerned" that this thread is just going to be a build thread for my engine..:confused:
maybe I should delete my answers about my engine?
I really want to hear (and see pictures) from people who have tried different go faster stuff.

How about knife edge on crank? and or polishing the same? http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...eys/gitaar.gif
I would like to try it, if it gives any thing at all?!
It should also give something (or a lot)!, as I'm probably going to have to rebuild all the bearing surfaces on an otherwise super fine crank .... I'm not afraid of the work! in fact, rather that, than expensive parts.. :D


kent olsen 06-21-2020 10:14 AM

Aircooled4evr

Can't find the specs on my cam but it is from Dougherty Racing Cams and is called GT2-102 Profile.

Cool my family came from Denmark.

Kent Olsen

Jeff Higgins 06-21-2020 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aircooled4evr (Post 10914367)
kent olsen

would you be willing to publish the numbers on your cam so I can compare it to my own 20/21?

Cheers

Kent and I are running the same custom cams from John Dougherty - I'm his friend from Seattle. This is a grind that John and I arrived upon after many lengthy discussions regarding my needs, and the lack of camshafts to fill those needs. I told him what I was after and why, he provided the suggestions and specs. Great guy to work with, by the way.

I wanted a camshaft for my 3.0 that was not constrained by the needs of the original CIS induction. I was switching to MFI (Kent is running carbs) and wanted to take full advantage of the more aggressive cam timing that would allow. More overlap, narrower lobe centers, and a bit more duration (but not too much). This was all available in several different cam profiles already, mind you - any cam from the 2.0, 2.2, or 2.4 T, E, and S motors have these characteristics. The problem is that they are meant to feed those smaller displacement motors and, as a result, lack the lift I felt necessary to feed the larger displacement 3.0. That's where John came in.

I wanted a "torque" motor, not a "horsepower" motor. I wanted something that makes power down low and all through the rev range. No peaky S or 906 style cams (besides, they don't provide nearly enough lift). With this requirement, we decided to keep duration relatively short. Longer duration simply drives the power higher up into the rev range, while sacrificing power down low and in the middle.

Here is what we came up with - John calls it his GT2-102 cam. It is no more than his GT2 grind, which normally has 112-113 degree lobe centers, but with the lobe centers narrowed to 102 degrees. It is a high lift, short duration design. The specs are as follows:

Intake:
Duration @ 1mm lift: 254 degrees, @ .050" lift: 248 degrees. Lift: .485"

Exhaust:
Duration @ 1mm lift: 238 degrees, @.050" lift: 232 degrees. Lift: .470"

This is about the lift of a DC or GE 60 cam, but with shorter duration. My twin plugged, 10.5:1 compression, MFI inducted 3.0 made just shy of 220 RWHP @ 6,000 RPM and 215 ft-lbs of torque @ 5,000 RPM. The torque curve is "table top" flat from just over 3,000 RPM to my 7,100 RPM "redline", never dropping below 200 ft-lbs across that range.

The motor is not "peaky" in the least, and can dawdle along down the road at 2,500-3,000 RPM while getting darn near 20 mpg. Or I can twist its tail on the track, bouncing off the rev limiter on darn near every shift, and it's a rocket ship at less than 2,200 pounds wet. Best of both worlds.

Oh, and one of the best parts - I built this motor over a decade ago. It must have 50-60 track days on it. It has almost 90,000 street miles on it. All I have ever done is routine maintenance.

Bill Douglas 06-21-2020 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aircooled4evr (Post 10914930)
There's a good advice again!
I balance my engines. The last until 0.2 of a gram, (very proud I must say!)
But I am not aware that there can be an advantage in putting different weights in different places! Tell os more pleace ... :)

Sorry, it's something that I read years ago (LOL I shouldn't have mentioned it), I think if you can get them all the same that's better than anything.

A month or two ago I was talking with the guy who rebuilt the engine I have in my SC and mentioned that it is very free rev'ing. He said that was down to them having balanced it.

icarp 06-22-2020 12:20 AM

The DME refers to the Bosch engine management computer . It is designed to optimize emissions , not engine performance. I think it is very important to have intake duration of the cam to exceed 250* @ .050" . Notice the Jeff Higgings cam has achieved that @ 254* . Having driven 10.5 second VW bugs I think you will be more satisfied withe the 464-465 web cam . I sent you a PM
Ian

Aircooled4evr 06-22-2020 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenfield (Post 10915378)
You’ll no doubt get some great fodder here but you might also find it beneficial to also find your way to Performance Development website (Neil Harvey) and read his extensive library of articles on this this. More focused on how to get a final squeeze out of the lemon but you’ll find the technical details on:
- knife edge cranks
- crank dampers
- polishing and flowing heads
- Coating cams
- Asymmetrical cams

To name a few. Some good stuff there

Mahaha ..
ok, I will NOT waste my time on knife edge'ing of the crank then! :D :D :D
Thank you so much for a good advice.
I have now read most of Neil Harvey's "library", fine and deep knowledge! And something can definitely be used.
Unfortunately, much of the theory/knowledge is obtaind via the latest generation of the porsche engine (including the boxter). and that's a completely different engine than ours. But again, a good deal to learn from him.

Aircooled4evr 06-22-2020 08:13 AM

You've probably heard it before, from us ignorant people, on the other side of the pond ....
But Aaaaaaaaaahhgn!! http://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/pyth.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...hotbounce2.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/support/smileys/uzi.gif
... What's 20 mpg ???

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo.../gaapslaap.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo.../gaapslaap.gifhttp://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...s/beerchug.gif Cheers
no .. seriously .. what's 20 mpg in "lpkm" snigger snigger ... (I imagine a sound from Charles M. Schulz's Peanuts) I'm not English speaking after all ... So imagine you guys sitting and laugh at me sometimes, ie, without me trying to be funny ...http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...eys/nahnah.gif

Aircooled4evr 06-22-2020 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kent olsen (Post 10915382)
Aircooled4evr

Can't find the specs on my cam but it is from Dougherty Racing Cams and is called GT2-102 Profile.

Cool my family came from Denmark.

Kent Olsen

Yep, SmileWavy have already "studied your profile" to see if I sat writing with another Dane! (Your name is very "Danish") :)http://forums.pelicanparts.com/suppo...s/beerchug.gif

Jeff Higgins 06-22-2020 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icarp (Post 10916026)
The DME refers to the Bosch engine management computer . It is designed to optimize emissions , not engine performance. I think it is very important to have intake duration of the cam to exceed 250* @ .050" . Notice the Jeff Higgings cam has achieved that @ 254* . Having driven 10.5 second VW bugs I think you will be more satisfied withe the 464-465 web cam . I sent you a PM
Ian

Being somewhat of a "camshaft geek", I would be exceedingly interested in why you make the recommendation that you have. Not that I'm disputing your recommendation, but I would like to be able to understand it on a much deeper technical level than "I've driven 10.5 second VW bugs".

Oh, and it's cool to hear from a fellow drag racer, although it's been too long for me. I had a couple of big block MOPAR B-bodied cars in the late '70's and early '80's. The 383 car was running low 11's at just over 110 mph, the 440 car touched the high 9's at just under 130. BIG roller tappet cams with rev kits - .670"-.680" lift... Last dedicated, serious drag car I ever drove was a buddy's "top door slammer" ran in a local Can-Am kind of series. Test and tune day, I wasn't really supposed to (long since expired license, kinda rusty...), but he let me (actually really insisted) because I helped him build the darn thing. By the end of the day, after lots of "practice" and really sneaking up on it, I managed a high seven second run and somewhere in the mid 160's. The car regularly runs low sevens, knocking on sixes, at just under 180 with him driving. Fun stuff... I miss drag racing sometimes.

Sorry for the diversion... can't help myself sometimes, especially when it comes to drag racing... Anyway, I would dearly love to hear your thoughts on 911 cams.

Rawknees'Turbo 06-24-2020 10:01 PM

All of youse guys(?) hem-hawing about boat-tailing this, compression and displacement bumping that, polishing your cranks (:eek:), shaving a gram off here and there, and optimizing cam lift and duration are just pissing in the wind! All of that mumbojumbo, and then some, will still leave you crying for your mamas and suckling hind teat compared to the mighty turbo pooowwwwaaahhhhhh (about as old school, go really fast as it gets)!!!

For the visual learners, I present ----->

https://i2.wp.com/www.speedhounds.co...orking-gif.gif

Yer all welcome for the tip (just the :eek:)!


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