Motul Classic Performance 20W-50

[edjrbashian]

Anyone tried this oil for our air-cooled motors? Motul usually makes some good stuff, I'm curious about trying this.


https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/classic-performance-20w50-22064e03-a302-4747-bf86-9881333c9389

[Uwon]

Interesting that the oil selection tab does not include pre-89 Porsches.
Wonder how it compares to VR1. I’m sure somebody will chime in with a full analysis.
Johan

[BER]

Our classic 911’s (prior to 1989), are listed with the Historic Cars on Motul’s Oil Selector. For the 84-89 3.2 Carreras, Motul recommends their 4100 Power 15w-50 brand of oil.

https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/4100-power-15w50

Never used their products, but they do have a good reputation for quality lubricants.

[macssc911]

Brad Penn

[walt]

Originally Posted by edjrbashian

Anyone tried this oil for our air-cooled motors? Motul usually makes some good stuff, I'm curious about trying this.


https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/classic-performance-20w50-22064e03-a302-4747-bf86-9881333c9389

The spec sheet indicates increased levels of ZDDP but interesting they don't specify the levels. I'll avoid at least for now.

[edjrbashian]

Thanks for finding the oil finder on their site, it looks like CLASSIC OIL 2100 15W-50 is recommended for my '75. Since the 2100 is not readily available, going to run something else (avoiding oil debate).

Going to stick with what is known.

[Peter M]

Looks fine for our use:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4086557/VOA_Motul_4100_Power_15W50

[lvporschepilot]

Motul 20/60 race oil is fantastic stuff. Highly recommended for anyone with a high revving hard-driven 911 engine. Track-use cars simply go longer between rebuilds. Instead of 80-100hours they see 150 hours.

[adias]

You should also try Liqui Moly Touring High Tech 20W50 - https://products.liqui-moly.com/touring-high-tech-20w-50-1.html

[Sabai]

Thanks for sharing I will definitely try this on my next oil change.

I am running Motul Transmission fluid in my g50 and Motul brake fluid with EXCELLENT results.

[kyngfish]

Unless you’re dead set on using Dino oil - I have yet to see a convincing reason to use anything 20 weight. It used to be that in order to get the “50” you needed to have a 20 cold weight. That was simply the lower limit for the thicker oils. But on startup I can’t see it being a good thing. Now synthetic oils are much much improved.

I used to use the brad penn that was all the rage and then switched to Mobil 1 15w50 with nary a leak and now liqui moly 10w60 with MoS2 and my consumption hasn’t really budged. My engine is very happy and startup is super snappy.

I can’t prove it but I think my oil consumption rose faster during my Brad penn days.

[High Life]

I love oil threads..

[Bill Douglas]

Originally Posted by kyngfish

and now liqui moly 10w60

So this is being used for a regular street 911? I like the sound of it.

[kyngfish]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

So this is being used for a regular street 911? I like the sound of it.

I went down this rabbit hole after seeing declining engine health using Brad Penn and reading a few threads where a few engine builders didn't really recommend it despite the love-fest on the forum.

Bottom line, the 50 weight made sense, especially in warmer temperatures, wider tolerances demand a more viscous weight, once warm, the oil is coating and flowing, so the higher viscosity isn't stopping oil from being where it needs to be. But 20 weight for cold cranking makes absolutely zero sense. If anything, you want oil to flow faster and quickly move through the engine to coat the parts on startup.

So when I started reading about it - the information I found essentially made it sound like a trade-off. You get the 50 warm weight because it's a more viscous oil to begin with, so the 20 weight is just part of the package, it's the lowest it will go on dino oil. That simply isn't the case with synthetics.

I eventually just wrote to Liqui-Moly and they recommended 10w60 - they actually recommended Ceratec instead of MoS2, but anyway, people complain about additives, but ZDDP is an additive, detergents in better oils are additives, they aren't all garbage. Liqui Moly is a pretty well respected company. I went with it. People can be cynical about a company obviously recommending their own oil, but I trust them a whole lot more than I trust the Porsche Classic stuff that's so clearly marked up beyond all recognition, it HAS to be a money scheme.

[Bill Douglas]

Thanks. I'll use it for my car's next oil change. My engine was professionally rebuilt about 15 years ago so it will have synthetic friendly seals, sealants and gaskets.

[kyngfish]

Originally Posted by Bill Douglas

Thanks. I'll use it for my car's next oil change. My engine was professionally rebuilt about 15 years ago so it will have synthetic friendly seals, sealants and gaskets.

I’m not a professional so please do your own research. All I can tell you is my leak down numbers are solid and my consumption hasn’t budged in two years.

[Crude Rudy]

I prefer and recommend Astro Glide 15W-50 when its hot

[Ok here we go]

Originally Posted by Crude Rudy

I prefer and recommend Astro Glide 15W-50 when its hot

Ahhh yes. Crude Rudy lives up to his name.

[tirwin]

Originally Posted by kyngfish

I went down this rabbit hole after seeing declining engine health using Brad Penn and reading a few threads where a few engine builders didn't really recommend it despite the love-fest on the forum.

Bottom line, the 50 weight made sense, especially in warmer temperatures, wider tolerances demand a more viscous weight, once warm, the oil is coating and flowing, so the higher viscosity isn't stopping oil from being where it needs to be. But 20 weight for cold cranking makes absolutely zero sense. If anything, you want oil to flow faster and quickly move through the engine to coat the parts on startup.

So when I started reading about it - the information I found essentially made it sound like a trade-off. You get the 50 warm weight because it's a more viscous oil to begin with, so the 20 weight is just part of the package, it's the lowest it will go on dino oil. That simply isn't the case with synthetics.

I eventually just wrote to Liqui-Moly and they recommended 10w60 - they actually recommended Ceratec instead of MoS2, but anyway, people complain about additives, but ZDDP is an additive, detergents in better oils are additives, they aren't all garbage. Liqui Moly is a pretty well respected company. I went with it. People can be cynical about a company obviously recommending their own oil, but I trust them a whole lot more than I trust the Porsche Classic stuff that's so clearly marked up beyond all recognition, it HAS to be a money scheme.

I tend to agree with your thinking. I did a lot of reading on RAT540’s blog. It is not easy to navigate but if you can get through the lack of links to topics, he does make some good points.

His major focus is not aircooled cars and there are not too many aircooled-compatible oils on his list. I wrote to him and asked if he would test the Porsche Classic 10W60 and he said he would consider it.

I did not know about the LiquiMoly. I’d love to see some other options. Not too much of a market for 10W60 oils I suspect. Well there was an aircraft oil on his list but I ruled it out because of a) availability and b) I would have to do some more research before I could really consider putting it in my car. It also had 0 ZDDP. Lots of conflicting opinions on ZDDP so for now, I decided that VR1 is a pretty safe bet.

The highest rated 50 weight was Valvoline VR1. I was disappointed in the M1 15W50 results.

Porsche Classic is spendy, but if it had good results from RAT540’s testing I’d probably consider it.

I’d suggest others write to him and see if we can convince him to do some testing. Heck I’d even contribute to offset his costs just to have some empirical data.

[tirwin]

BOOM!!!

I just went to his blog and RAT540 tested the Porsche Classic 10W60! Disappointing results.

Here is his review:

38. 10W60 Porsche Classic Motor Oil, synthetic = 105,710 psi
This oil was Engineered in Weissach, and made in Germany especially for air-cooled Porsche flat six engines 3.0L and larger.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
molt = TBD
This oil was tested Spring 2020. The psi value above, produced by this oil, came from testing it at the normal test temperature of 230*F. But, I also tested this oil at the much higher test temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. And this oil had a very disappointing and significant 21% drop in capability, resulting in only 83,166 psi at 275*F. An air-cooled engine cannot control its oil temperature very well at all, which is why high temperature performance of a motor oil intended for air-cooled engines is EXTREMELY important. Unfortunately, the poor high temperature performance of this oil, makes it a less than ideal choice for air-cooled engines. Clearly the Chemical Engineering of this oil has fallen short of its intended goal.

A better thick oil choice for an air-cooled engine, would be 20W50 Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, which produced 97,677 psi at 230*F, and it produced 94,850 psi at 275*F. Both the 20W50 Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, AND the 10W60 Porsche Classic Motor Oil showed their onset of thermal breakdown points were at 285*F.