3.0 weber engine IT RUNS!

[jwetering]

I have been too busy to post running progress reports, but some of you know that my mechanic has been building semi-extreme street 3.0 for me over the winter.

The good news is that it is now running. Late this afternoon, we gassed it up, turned it over and by golly it idled smooth even before the ignition timing and carbs were tweaked. I had to bloody work a night shift, so I didn't get a chance to drive it, but that's fine, I want my mechanic to spend a few hours dialing it in before I get behind the wheel anyway. So tomorrow morning after my night shift I have to go home and try to sleep for a few hours, and in the early afternoon I'll go pick it up and drive it for the first time.

The details:

1979 3.0 case
Stock 95 mm Nikasil cylinders
JE 9.5:1 pistons.
Webcam 120/104 cams
Weber 40 IDA carbs (no idea how it's jetted).
MSD ignition
Dansk dual sport muffler (black, two straight pipes sticking out the back).

After listening to Zielke's horror stories about how loud and lumpy this car is going to be, I was pleasantly surprised to hear that at idle it sounded as though my wife won't leave me after all. Give it a shot of throttle though and hoo boyo it snarls.

So Doug - if you got your ears on, come by Andy's shop tomorrow about 3 pm and check it out. Give me a call on my cell phone after 2 pm (329.6656) and I'll meet you there.

I'll post pics after the weekend when I get my act together.

[dd74]

Good work. Can you get it dynoed?

[jwetering]

I would like to find a good dyno in Vancouver, or the lower mainland. I'm the PCA region president, and I'd like to organize a dyno day. If anyone has any leads, please let me know.

[Elombard]

I am interested in building the same motor. How did you come by the cylinders? Seems like that is the hardest part to source. Also, do you mind sharing the bill$$

Did you already have the webbers and some other parts or did you buy everything?

Thanks

[jpnovak]

I too will be building the same motor probably next year. I would be very interested in a dyno run. I was going to build mine with S cams. How does the 120/104 grind compare?

Elombard, The 95 mm cylinders are stock SC size. I think he just replaced the pistons, cams, induction and exhaust.

I bet you will love that motor.

Jamie

[EWPurdy]

I have a PMO'd 3.0L with stock SC cams and would love to hear the difference those 120/104 cams and RSR pistons make.

[jluetjen]

Here's a comparison that I did of a number of cams sorted in order of duration. The numbers in red are estimates that I made based on a regresssion analysis of the different factory cams.



A couple of notes:
* In general; duration = rev's (discounting the affects of porting, cam timing, induction and exhaust designs. Basically these estimates assume a fairly "standard" engine configuration)
* The greater the overlap, the peakier the engine will be. By peakier I mean stronger "on-cam" and weaker "off-cam". Note that Webcam doesn't publish their cam lobe angle/overlap since you can specify the lobe angle.

[jpnovak]

Thanks John,

I was going to look up that table in a previous post but got lost in the archives. Looks like they are very similar to the S cam.

[Elombard]

JPnovak

I thought the same thing about the Cylinders until I read Waynes new book. He says most 3.0 motors came with Alusil cylinders which are not reuseseable. I guess most of the 3.2 motors have the Nikasil cylinders. Maybe used sets are available?? I dont believe you can buy new cylinders only, they come with the pistons - it seems a shame to chuck the brand new mahle pistons??

What do you think??

[Elombard]

Ok a littel clarification. I just called EBS and they can replate the Alusil with Nickasil and then you can run the JEs. Interesting note if you want to build a 3.2 short stroke (98mm P/Cs) on a 3.0 liter motor they can bore out your pistoms and replate with Nickasil but they can only do it with 3.2 cylinders. I thought the 3.0 and 3.2 were identical. Any body know if 40mm will work on a 3.2 short stroke, Waynes book indicates you need 46mm.

[jluetjen]

I often find myself confusing the 120/104 and the 104/102. Who came up with those names??? The 104/102 seems to be in a similar class to the S cam while the 120/104 is more in the league with the 906 and other full-race cams.

[jpnovak]

John - You are right. I didn't read the numbers right. That's got to be one hot motor.

EW- I am still waiting for my book. It shipped last week but has not arrived on the right coast yet. I would love to do the 3.2SS but price may dictate otherwise. I have a set of 40's waiting to go on the 3.0. I would think that 46's would be required for the 3.2 - especially with cams that operate in the high rev ranges. The 40's would choke out by then.

[Elombard]

Right, If the 3.2 SS needs 46s and maybe some addirional head work?? it could get real expensive. I will probably just stick with the 3.0.

[dd74]

Couldn't you buy a pair of 3.2 heads and adapt them to the 3.0 instead of doing the head work on the 3.0 heads?

[cstreit]

Good news! Let us know if you get some dyno time and how you like the power delivery once you really get to drive it!

[Elombard]

DD74 Not sure? I think the 3.2 heads flow better to, though I have the 78/79 heads that are supposed to be better than the later ones. Good question

[jwetering]

OK - here I am back from my test drive - I have 4 hours on this engine now and I'm *trying* to keep the revs below 5000.

point 1 : 95 mm Nikasil wwere the stock cylinders. I mic'd them and they were well withing spec.

point 2: I traded my high mileage but strong leak free stock CIS 3.0 for a long block with webers and an MSD. I had to grind cams (made CIS cams into 120/104 cams), bought the pistons, ground the crank 025mm under (another topic - I've already been through the re-hardening controversy), reworked the heads with guides and a grind, and then of course the 30-40 hours for my man Andy Haglund to wrench it together ( I have a swedish mechanic). Total bill was about $7000 Canadian dollars, maybe $8000, Andy hasn't hit me for the labour yet, and I'm not in a hurry to add up what I spent - and oh yeah, the trade included $1200 canadian cash to me from the guy who has my old motor.

point 3: I am absolutely flabbergasted by how much grunt this thing has below 4000 rpm. Not that I spend a lot of time down there since it fairly zings up to speed. No pops, no flat spots, just a raw ripping sound as my neck snaps back into the headrest. Remember this is before we even looked at the jets, emulsion tubes, and venturis in the webers. We have the ignition timed so that we've got 35 degree peak advance. I'm running 94 octane fuel, and the motor seems to use a lot of it.

point 4: I do have a small vacuum leak at the throttle shaft, which causes an uneven idle, and the throttle linkage is fairly sloppy. Both are easy fixes. The throttle also doesn't open completely when I floor it, which we were going to fix, but thought better of it since we're still breaking the motor in, and I have a bit of a heavy foot problem. I'll give it a 100 miles and then address these issues.

point 5: plumbing the manifold vacuum lines for the power brakes went extremely well. I did the work, and if I do say so myself, it's a work of art. I drilled into four of the six intake manifold runners and threaded in brass compression fitting unions. These were all plumbed together with 1/4 inch copper tubing, terminating in 5/8 inch barbed ends. It's difficult to describe, but somewhere down the road I'll post a picture to provide the proverbial 1000 words. Suffice to say, the brakes feel better than they did with the CIS...I wonder if I had a leak?

I gotta go - the wife's just come home and she doesn't know I spent this money.

[dd74]

Originally posted by jwetering
the wife's just come home and she doesn't know I spent this money.

Now that's another pending problem!



Maybe if you take her for a ride...

[Doug Zielke]

Originally posted by dd74
Now that's another pending problem!

You don't realize how true that statement is!

Jasper is a friend of mine, and I'm sure going to miss him.

Prez,
I'm glad your motor is running well. Perhaps you didn't get such radical cams as you think. I heard A.H. really slipped in some mild sticks from an old 911T. Muhahahahaha!

I hope to see you tomorrow afternoon and you can take me for a drive.

[jwetering]

I hope to see you tomorrow afternoon and you can take me for a drive.

Call me on my cell tomorrow, and I'll try to sneak away. The afformentioned significant other may rather I spend time with her and my boy. Nap time for Logan is 11 am, so call me around then?