incompetent engine builder

[robertmark]

Has anyone ever been so frustrated with the Porsche tech/engine builder they hired, that they sued since they had to pay again for someone else to fix the previous guys screwups? I'm seriously considering it.

[75 911s]

sadly it happens occasionally. I recall a few deals gone sour and publicly discussed here on the forums.

Suing is a major pita and no one comes away happy really. It's a lot of emotional and mental hassle. I wouldn't do it unless you have another 20k to burn on lawyers.

If you've exhausted all recourse prior to that, then I'd probably still not do it.

[Long Nose]

I have never sued a technician for work on a vehicle, but I have sued a contractor who worked on my personal house. Might be slightly different because I am in Canada vs. USA. Here in Canada we have small claims court over civil matters less than a certain value. You can take a person to small claims without a lawyer. It will take a lot of your time, and it is a very stressful process that can swing either way. In my case it was the only recourse as he was still claiming I owed money, and so needed a third party to intervene.

We ended by going into a arbitration process. Your paperwork has to be rock solid, if not they take both parties at equal face value and it becomes your word against his. No matter what you think there are two sides to every story, and no doubt your engine builder has a side, you didn't take all of his reccomendations, etc. etc. Although I would not choose to ever go thru that again, it was a valuable learning experience that has changed my outlook on hiring and retaining services, and has changed the way I do things going forward.

Make sure that you have provided your engine builder every opportunity to fix the issues. Really listen to what he is telling you regardless of how angry you get, take the time to understand his position as this will help you especially if you take him to court. Taking him to court should be the last option, but that's what civilized people do, and its part of the fabric of our society so it should be an option you consider and your builder should know that you are willing to do so. Explore all of your other options that give you leverage over the building, is there a business association that he is part of? Threatening a poor Google review is a strong motivator for some businesses.

Try and keep your cool and never threaten violence or raise your voice, as this can be used against you.

Good luck, so sorry you are having issues. This is supposed to be a fun and enjoyable hobby, so never good when it starts detracting from your life.

[robertmark]

Thanks for the comments, keep them coming. My sister back when she practiced law said everyone who wanted to sue someone said it was the principal of the thing. Well, it is. My builder sent my mfi to low Bob's mfi rebuild shop. It failed so he resent it to the same guy, at my expense of $200 next day air. Came back still not functioning properly. Now I have it with a real pro, at my expense again. Same story with my distributor, I just completed paying a real professional to rebuild it. He even told me it had never been worked on, it was in just horrific condition for sitting for so many years. One day I returned to his shop to tell him my tach which he worked on was no longer working. He actually went to another customers car and removed their tach and put it in my car. I couldn't believe my eyes. I told him I didn't want to take someone else's tach, he said he'll find another one. I could go on with many more issues of the engine builder, but I don't want to bore you all. I just feel like this kind of incompetent behavior needs to be called out, so nobody else gets burned like I did.

[911pcars]

There might be public court records when Motomeister was doing their rebuilding scams. Still, an extended and expensive process.

S

[tdskip]

It is important that the community look out for one another, but that needs to be balanced against being fair to the shop(s) involved. I had an issue that I took questions on via PMs rather than put it out in the main forum, one idea perhaps.

[boyt911sc]

Originally Posted by robertmark

Has anyone ever been so frustrated with the Porsche tech/engine builder they hired, that they sued since they had to pay again for someone else to fix the previous guys screwups? I'm seriously considering it.

Unless there is malicious intent on the side of your mechanic, it is quite difficult to prove your case. What specific case do you have against the mechanic? Are you using words from one mechanic against the other? How could you sue malpractice against your mechanic? Take your loss and move on. Hiring a lawyer will just add to your expenses.

Tony

[AG81]

The only folks winning are the lawyers. Been there done that.

[pmax]

Originally Posted by robertmark

Thanks for the comments, keep them coming. My sister back when she practiced law said everyone who wanted to sue someone said it was the principal of the thing. Well, it is. My builder sent my mfi to low Bob's mfi rebuild shop. It failed so he resent it to the same guy, at my expense of $200 next day air. Came back still not functioning properly. Now I have it with a real pro, at my expense again. Same story with my distributor, I just completed paying a real professional to rebuild it. He even told me it had never been worked on, it was in just horrific condition for sitting for so many years. One day I returned to his shop to tell him my tach which he worked on was no longer working. He actually went to another customers car and removed their tach and put it in my car. I couldn't believe my eyes. I told him I didn't want to take someone else's tach, he said he'll find another one. I could go on with many more issues of the engine builder, but I don't want to bore you all. I just feel like this kind of incompetent behavior needs to be called out, so nobody else gets burned like I did.

So ... the guy's swapping parts off customer's cars .... I say nail him. This is beyond incompetence and a misunderstanding, it's larceny.

Who knows how long he has been doing this and will continue to do so.

[jjeffries]

My two cents and I work in the industry: unless you have something extremely concrete, in writing (like a Repair Order, Work Order or contract which constitutes an agreement as to exactly what will be done, by whom, when and for what eventual price ), you’ll have no leg to stand on. Others’ advice to move on is the right advice. It sucks, but unless you can squeeze some refund cash out of this fellow (sounds like that’ll be unlikely) trying to pursue this will only waste more time and money, and worse, heartache.

John

[Glenfield]

Robert, where are you located? Also, how much do you estimate you’re out of pocket? I think you’re getting good advice here, as painful as that is

[Jeff Alton]

Well, it depends....

Was your engine builder a brick and mortar shop or a guy working out of his house? Was it a legitimate Corp, LLP or otherwise? Do they carry insurance like every legit business does?

Why did you chose this builder? What were the key points that made you chose them/him over someone else? Price?

Now, that all said, I feel for you. We have rebuilt motors some 3K miles after they were "rebuilt" by "shops"... What we saw we have no words for. But, we are all humans and prone to mistakes. But, as the client one needs to do their due diligence and research to make sure they are dealing with reputable people/businesses. No one would hire a contractor to build their house without doing that, so why should we be any different when looking for an engine builder. NOT SAYING you didn't do your due diligence.

Was the motor rebuilt of just the MFI needed attention, I could not tell from your posts.

I hope you get a reasonable result for your troubles.

[Nditiz1]

I have seen "shops" perform the actions you posted here - "barrowing" a part from another customers car. A word for the wise, if you ever see this happening, the work coming from this "shop" will be anything but acceptable. Best to leave immediately and get the word out. I would definitely be posting up to ensure other current customers get there cars out ASAP. These types of businesses are not around long, but always hurt unsuspecting customers. A lot of the time these "shops" are finally done when one or several customers start to file suits against them. The jig is up and the terrible owner cuts and runs.

[Tony V]

If your state has a Bureau of Automotive Repair, that may be a way to see if you have recourse. I was able to get a substantial refund on some repairs that were done poorly. Didn’t cost me a dime and was resolved rather quickly.
Good luck

[robertmark]

Great comments, thanks guys. Firstly, I live in Indiana, and the shop is located here. If anyone in Indiana is needing work done, feel free to PM me and I will share the shops name. Since there is a good chance I may pursue legal action, I'd rather not shout it from the rooftop just yet. But, at the same time people like this need to be stopped.

After returning to his shop multiple times, it became apparent that the guy is not suited to work on these cars, or be around the general public. One day upon my arrival he was working on a 911. He was so angry he began throwing tools. He said, and I quote, "If I knew where Ferry Porsche was buried, I'd dig that F***** up and beat the S*** out of him". Yes, you read that correctly. I couldn't believe my ears. I am getting letters from the professionals who rebuilt the distributor and mfi. While the entire rebuild wasn't a disaster, the portions that are I want to be compensated for. Small claims in Indiana is capped at $8,000 so I may just go that route and represent myself with documentation from the people who are correcting my train wreck. There should be a national registry for people like this to be on.

To answer a couple questions, I used this one man brick and mortar shop as I was told at a few cars and coffee's that he is the guy for such a build. It was not an attempt on my part to save money, or cut any corners. And yes, the complete engine was rebuilt by him. In fact with the car out of service for 40 years, he was hired to get all mechanicals up and running. The car tracked very straight, however, the steering wheel was pointing at about 1:00. He said not much can be done about that. So that also was corrected by another shop in about 15 minutes. The tach he stole from a customers car was removed and mine put back in along with Bob Ashlock's tach adapt. This too was done by the other shop in about 30 minutes. I looked in my brake fluid reservoir and it literally had dirt laying in the bottom of it. He just added fluid to it. The list goes on and on.

[speedster911]

Sounds like you just picked a loser to work on your car... Don't shoot me for saying that.

I had a similar situation, my project almost felt jinxed, everything touched was a cluster, had to be reworked, didn't work when installed etc. The difference for me is the mechanic I was working with had done exemplary work for me before and after the jinxed project. But he never took parts off another car, Never threw tools etc. I think he has shown you who he is... believe him.

The shops that worked on your MFI and distributor- have you spoken to them? Their comments may give you a true reflection of what is really going on... perhaps he took your MFI, put it on another car and you have someones crap MFI that was sitting in water for years. You sure you have the correct Dizzy returned to you? This info may help your position if you chose the legal route.

Not sure of the Indiana laws, if you win in SC court, is there any mandate that he pays you? Good luck, hate to hear about situations like this

[gomezoneill]

Okay I'm calling BS on this. No Porsche Mechanic would like to bury Ferry Porsche BS>

[robertmark]

Originally Posted by speedster911

Sounds like you just picked a loser to work on your car... Don't shoot me for saying that.

I had a similar situation, my project almost felt jinxed, everything touched was a cluster, had to be reworked, didn't work when installed etc. The difference for me is the mechanic I was working with had done exemplary work for me before and after the jinxed project. But he never took parts off another car, Never threw tools etc. I think he has shown you who he is... believe him.

The shops that worked on your MFI and distributor- have you spoken to them? Their comments may give you a true reflection of what is really going on... perhaps he took your MFI, put it on another car and you have someones crap MFI that was sitting in water for years. You sure you have the correct Dizzy returned to you? This info may help your position if you chose the legal route.

Not sure of the Indiana laws, if you win in SC court, is there any mandate that he pays you? Good luck, hate to hear about situations like this

Hey Speedster911,

Yes, I spoke with the shop that completed the distributor rebuild. They are giving me documentation stating it had not been serviced in any way. The mfi guy will give me something once it has all been fixed. I blame myself for not doing my dd and sending the pump to Pacific Fuel injection or mfi werks. However, I left the rebuild and sub work in the hands of this lunatic. Live and learn, even at 56!

[speedster911]

Originally Posted by robertmark

Hey Speedster911,

Yes, I spoke with the shop that completed the distributor rebuild. They are giving me documentation stating it had not been serviced in any way. The mfi guy will give me something once it has all been fixed. I blame myself for not doing my dd and sending the pump to Pacific Fuel injection or mfi werks. However, I left the rebuild and sub work in the hands of this lunatic. Live and learn, even at 56!

I have a few years on you and still learning

[faapgar]

A little clarity on what was requested and what went sideways would add credence to your story.I do not care who did but the end result would be nice.Ciao