The large majority of 911 alternators have a 17mm shaft, same as our replacement alternator.

The 16mm shaft alternator (which you have) was fitted for a very short period of time before reverting back to 17mm. The only modification required is to the cup washer or just get a 17mm replacement washer from Porsche.

We will add a note to the manual.

Looking pretty tidy in there.......nice work. One observation and recommendation....most of your project posts, while showing nice work and good progress.... seem to focus on the negative aspects of the project, ....delays, etc....It is supposed to be fun....the delays, USPS, whatever are variables that are always part of a project...if it's not USPS, it will be parts availability, wrong parts, missing ( I use a checklist , when packing my kits...and still miss bits sometimes)...whatever....the delays are inevitable. A Porsche hotrod, DIY project takes a certain positive mindset and creative, problem solving focus.....you seem to have the creative side down pat..........have some fun with it!

Oh I am having fun with it- it's the highlight of my week, hell, it's the highlight of my childhood!

I'm just also trying to be brutally honest for those who are considering this path so that they can learn from my shortcomings or mistakes. I've learned so much from posts here that I'd like to give something back and a "look how awesome I am" thread just isn't me... at least not yet. ;)

Hagiographic celebrations of one's successes rarely move the needle.

Case in point; Jonny is updating his manual to make a note of the 16mm vs 17mm alternator shaft. That means that my complaint or focus on the negative (and really it wasn't a life altering issue) has made the product or process better and for that everyone should be grateful. The next person who upgrades their alternator might not have their day stalled due to a strange Stuttgart decision... they may be able to avoid my issues because I shared them.

Trust me Al, all day long all I think about is getting to work on this car. I'll make sure that my future posts better reflect that feeling.

-J

Yep....I've been doing this for a while now and still can't wait to get out there and problem solve, build, install, tune....and fire them up...nothing like it. You seem to have a great skill-set and will have no problems you can't solve. nice work.

regards,
al

Pelican is a fun juxtaposition from the "everything is perfect" world of Instagram. I always appreciate seeing how the soup is made, even if the process includes some unappealing aspects.

Case in point, watching Chris struggle with EFI made me re-examine my hatred of CIS. I ended up really liking CIS once I studied and modified it for my application. That's not to say I'll never do an EFI car, though. It looks like a fun hobby ;)

Keep the updates coming Julian!

Oh just you hold the phone until this winter is over, Tony.
I'm coming for your 3.2ss with my mild 3.0 EFI build. ;)

Pinks???
 

OH, this is heating up a bit !!!

Are we talking PINKS???

Oh my - Can I watch??

Ruchlos Rallye 2. We’ll settle it on the mountain!

Showdown is invited to mix it up with us as well.

Oof, now I really have to make sure I don’t mess this up!!

This sounds spicy, I'm throwing my hat in the ring as another for team EFI :)

No pinks, but maybe lunch. :D

That's a deal.

This is what we like to hear. Last year was a blast. Even all the wives I talked to loved it.

Ah jeeze. Mr hotrod 3.6 wants to play. Too bad my car is significantly lighter than all of yours. HP is faster in the straights, but lightweight is faster everywhere.
I guess I better lose some lbs myself or I'm just offsetting the difference in the cars!

Day 5

Knowing that I wasn’t likely to work on the car this weekend due to a family wedding, I stole 20 mins here and 20 mins there from my work day to tend to some intermediate projects. I’m lucky that my car lives at my work studio with access to all my tools and supplies. I’m also unlucky that my car lives at my work as it sings a siren song for my attention thus making actually working quite difficult.

In any event I started wrapping the wiring with fold-over loom material that I can open up later if something isn’t right. I’m double and triple checking everything in hopes to avoid an issue but it’s nice to know that it’s not all sealed up. I wanted to get it wrapped before the ITBs go in as space is a premium and I don’t want to origami myself in there.
I fabricated a dirty ugly little mounting bracket for the deutsche connector- I didn’t want it rattling around.

Still far from finished but making headway.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1638802324.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1638802324.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1638802324.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1638802324.jpg

A whole bunch of boxes showed up: Clewett, Stuttgart-Classica, and a million small ones from Amazon: all parts to hopefully make the next steps delay free.

Julian,

Your bracket looks like aluminum.
Pick up a deburring tool. It'll make short work of the rough edges on the hole you cut for your connector.
(cheap on Amazon)

Day 6

A rare Saturday post must mean something good or something not good, or both.

Let's start off with the good:

The bulk of the work today was tying in all of the engine bay wiring to the MSD harness via a Deutsch connector. I also installed a few other quick connectors to make engine drops easier. I realize now that I probably should have mounted the fuel pressure regulator and vacuum manifold on the engine rather than the firewall as that would have made engine drops as simple as disconnecting 4 hoses (fuel line in and return, brake booster, vacuum line) as opposed to 7 (fuel line to the fuel rails, 6x ITB vacuum lines) … maybe it’s a wash…?

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1639246748.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1639246748.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1639246748.jpg

With all of the wires run it was now time to finish up the installation of the mechanicals. I got the ITBs, the throttle linkage, a new coil, the vacuum hose, manifold hoses and new Clewett plug wires installed (after ordering them online Richard Clewett called me to confirm some selections and we had a lovely 15 minute conversation about my project- it was really cool to hear his genuine enthusiasm even though my humble 2.7 probably wouldn’t even cut it for his lawnmower)

And with that, everything was done!!

I paused and marveled at the new engine bay for a while and then moved on to the next step: firing it up.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1639245630.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1639245630.jpg

And that's where the good ends.

I loaded up Al's tune, checked the fuel lines and pressure and then went all on and twisted that key to Valhalla.

Fuel pump comes on, fuel pressure at 40psi, engine cranks and cranks but wont turn over and start up without giving it some gas via the pedal. If I keep the RPMs at about 1500 it will run albeit not well at all. If I let off the gas, the car dies.

This is not good.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/3vyPNysOB-I" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>


With my laptop and TunerStudio running this is what it looks like:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/d2IAHgiAfNw" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In both videos I have to keep on the gas to keep the car alive.

The engine is spewing gas and oil and there's a massive puddle of it on the floor and my garage door. My entire building and I smell like Mad Max and I'm pretty sure the entire neighborhood is now high as hell off fumes.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1639245787.jpg


So I don't even have the slightest clue as to what is going on or how to even figure out that answer. I know that AFR at 17 is oh so not good and that's about it. I don't know why it's doing that, I don't know how to diagnose the issue(s), I don't know how to even think about what could be going wrong.

Help.

i'd look into firing order, and that all plugs are firing

Start tuning.....
 

Julian,
Congrats ......the start-up tune file got your engine fired up and running and now the real tuning begins.

Per the User's Guide...
• TunerStudio (EFI Analytics and DIY AutoTune software) check out their websites.The TunerStudio program. This is the program that allows you to program the tuning tables, etc. It also will display the various parameters such as RPM’s, injector pulse, manifold air pressure, battery voltage, A/F mix, etc. This is customizable.
• MegaLog viewer
a. Allow you to easily view the TunerStudio log files.

• (1) your baseline tune file ( *.msq)
i. Note: this file has will fire up your engine and allow you to complete the tuning. This file worked well with ITBs, as tested on my engine test stand.
ii. The engine may run a bit rich at first as I tend to provide them that way……better safe than sorry on the test stand…………….this can be fine tuned, on the dyno/road, under real load conditions. All engines are different and two identically prepared engines will typically be tuned differently to achieve best running/performance. You can use Tuner Studio and Megalog to view and log the tuning. Megalog viewer can be used to view the logging files and then can be used to identify the relationships between MAP, TPS, AFR, and RPM and modify the maps accordingly.


Tuning The Idle AFRs

You will find that the car will likely idle best between an AFR ratio of 12.5:1 and 13.5:1. Most likely you will end up right around 13:1. To tune the idle, make sure the idle speed is set to its final value (1000-1200 RPM is a nice, smooth idle with ITBs). With the car fully warm, you can adjust the idle fuel bins. Try to find an AFR at which the engine is most smooth and pulls the most vacuum. That will result in the strongest idle. Remember, if the idle wants to hunt then you have gone too lean. If it wants to bog out and sound labored, you have gone too rich. When tuning these bins, try to make the idle area of the map look like a small valley where the bin closest to the actual idle RPM/MAP value is in the middle.
Leaving a slightly rich spot to the left helps "catch" the engine should the RPMs dip below idle and having the right side blend into the rest of the map will smooth the transition into load. When you tune a bin, tweak the bin closest to the current engine load point the most, but apply small changes to the surrounding bins. This keeps the map smooth.

Tuning AFRs At Low to Medium Load
This is most easily done with someone else to work the laptop (or drive the car). Drive the car easily at first, working in the most common area of the map (for most cars, 2000-4000 RPM at 40-70 Kpa).
Slowly observe the wideband while adjusting the VE bins to maintain a ratio of around 13.5-14.0 in this area. Of course, ultimately the wideband is just a tool so if the car likes richer ratios, tune richer. At first you will find yourself making major changes to the map, but always remember to try and maintain a smooth map. The smoothness of the table will directly represent how well the car drives. Slowly work up the RPM range while working the table. Do not forget the often missed high RPM high vacuum area (down at the bottom right of the map). Work both to the right of the map and up. Once you have crossed about 80 KpA, you will find that the engine is much happier at richer ratios. These could be near 13.5:1, or as rich as 12.5:1. You will have to determine what feels best for the engine you are running. Most engines are very happy at 13.5:1 but ultimately the AFR will be determined by feel and/or a dyno reading.




So.....Datalogging is your friend. Datalog your your cold start and idling and email me a copy of the log file and your Currenttune.msq file and I'll review it and email you back recommended changes to the tune.

Have you adjusted the ITBs, so that it will idle without you having to hold your foot on the pedal? It looks like it is running overly rich and needs to be leaned out at idle....but your 17:1 AFR reading means it is running lean, ...that is if the correct o2 calibration is entered into the program. Also,,,,has it been timed?

Day 6.5

So after coming home from work where the car lives and feeling pretty lousy I took the family to see the Nutcracker ballet, assisted my 5 and 8 year old in making cookies (the results were surprisingly good) and popped a bottle of brut rosé champagne and just forgot about the 911 for a bit.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1639323647.jpg

I exchanged a few emails with Al and now feel much better about the situation (young grasshopper learns from wise sage and all...) The good news, and I guess this is no small feat, is that the engine does in fact start which means that at a base level all of my mechanical and electrical work is sound and passed the smell test. I guess I was too focused on what wasn't that I forgot what was. Large victories should not be overshadowed by small defeats. Thus far I have about 20 hours all together into the EFI/ITB project and I certainly didn't expect to be at this point yet and so all things considered I should be really happy. Be happy Julian, be happy.

I'll be returning to the car this week to start calibrating all the sensors (gee, what a thought) in hopes that I can get it to idle and then begin the basic tuning process. One eats an elephant one bite at a time, after all.

It's funny going from CIS which really is idiot proof, stupid simple to work on and when working rock solid, to EFI which I assume will get to that point but starts off as a hot mess bag of legos with no instructions. And my no instructions I mean 200 page TunerStudio and MegaSquirt manuals.

The only bummer part is that the weather is about to turn in Chicago (at least historically this is when is starts to go from "hey, winter... kinda nice" to "WTF, why do I live here!") and that means that any real world tuning or dyno-ing will have to wait until spring...

At least I have a mountain of body work and AC install to keep my busy. Ha!

Congrats on the first fire-up. That's a much bigger milestone than you give credit for.
With the tutelage of Al and the fine gents here on Pelican, you can get that thing ripping in short order.

Great work. Spring is coming soon. You've got great momentum, so keep it up.

First video, sounds like it's running on 3 or 4 cylinders. Check your firing order and plugs, etc.

Plugs are probably fouled.

Is your TPS reading correctly? 70% at idle?

Timing has been verified? It sounded like it kicked back when you were trying to start it.

Lean AFR is due to misfire. Misfire is probably from being too rich. Without knowing all the specifics, I imagine 3.7 ms equates to too much fuel.

All those are on the list to check, first I have to deal with the battery I killed...

I recalibrated the TPS and now it's proper, it wasn't, same goes for the AFR sensor and temp sensor...

I have a massive air leak somewhere- probably the gaskets so new ones are on order, but I'm going to check all the hoses too.

Timing light just arrived so that's on the list for this weekend too.

Day 7

One step forward, two steps backward
Down inna Babylon


Yesterday before leaving work I did the following:

Calibrated the TPS
Calibrated the temp sensor
Calibrated the MAP
Replaced intake gaskets with new ones.
Replaced plugs as they were super fouled.

With those done, I was able to start the car almost instantly and get it running albeit choppy and inconsistently. It even held idle. IT HELD IDLE. The MAP signal was super high though. I grabbed a nice long datalog to scour over and send to Al. Then I went home feeling great.

This morning I woke at an ungodly 3am and couldn't get back to sleep so I headed into work to tend to this car.

I was able to start the car quickly but I couldn't get it to hold idle. Sad face. I tried again, and the same thing. I was noticing that I was still getting MAP readings in the 90s which basically means no vacuum signal. Which means a leak, right?

Ok, let's go hunting.

Checked all of the hoses for tears or holes: nothing.
Checked all the connections just to be sure they were, you know, connected: all good.
Checked the manifold and teflon taped all the threads just to be sure.
Disconnected the brake booster hose and plugged that hole.
I even checked the MAP sensor by sucking on the hose to see if it would register a signal: it did.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1639846713.png

That said, I had to really suck on that hose- like pulling a milkshake up a straw. I don't know how sensitive these sensors are supposed to be, maybe someone can enlighten me. It seemed like a lot of effort. That said, it did respond so, I dunno.

I tried again to get the car to run without giving it gas... nope.

I tried smoke test the ITBs but I have no idea what I was doing so I'm sure I did it wrong. Perhaps someone can tell me the procedure. I taped up the top of the ITBs and pulled the vacuum hose from the manifold and attached the smoke machine to it. I was looking for leaks at the gaskets but didn't see any. I saw some leaks above the butterflies but those shouldn't matter. There were also some leaks around the butterfly shaft.

So after all of that I couldn't even get the car to start let alone hold idle. So I pulled the plugs, and yup, they're fouled...again.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1639847117.jpg


So I'm now stuck in a cycle: get new plugs and the car will start and hold idle but that will begin the process of fouling the plugs because the MAP signal is too high in the VE table and dumping tons of fuel thinking I'm at WOT and I'm not so that fouls the plugs and then I can't get the car to hold idle or even start. And that means that I can't set the timing or start tuning, and I have to buy new plugs...again.

A few questions:

1.) is my assessment of the cycle correct?
2.) where else could there be a leak this big?
3.) is there a way to smoke test ITBs?
4.) Who put the bop in the bop shoo bop shoo bop?

Oh, I cut off the long hood extension I had welded on the hood earlier and welded on a new one...more on that later. ugh.

You know that moment when you suddenly think of something that may both solve your problem and make you look like a royal doofus...

I just realized that the intake gaskets that I've been using are the CIS ones for my 2.7 with the injector cutouts.

I'm guessing I need something like this instead:

https://www.clewett.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=4_48&produc ts_id=330

Julian,
you set initial timing ...at first, statically. I.E.setting the engine so that #1 is at TDC and verifying that the rotor is pointing to the #1 dizzy .......then you use your timing light and the trigger wizard in Tunerstudio, to verify/adjust while cranking the engine over....with the fuel pump fuse pulled.......so that you are cranking over (not running) with no fuel...just ignition...

Once these timing basics are completed, you can then verify timing at idle and verify advance, etc.

I'll email you some directions.....

If you are getting leaks at the manifold gaskets (there are various ways to test this).....the spacer kits from PMO or Clewett work well....although typically not required for the 2.7.... until you get to the 3.2 engines......

Al,

I knew I forgot to do something today. 3am will do that to you.

Mental note: set static timing, set static timing.

J,

Have you confirmed your MAP signal changes when you rev it?
I'd check out that vac system.
Cap/Plug all the hoses at the TBs, disconnect the brake booster hose and connect a vac pump at the booster nipple. Then check for leaks.
If none, connect your vac pump to the booster hose and check for leaks. The check-valve in my booster hose is a 2pc contraption that separated once and caused a massive vac leak.

Gotta systematically work your way though the entire air system (vac, ITB, intake manifolds) to figure out where you're going awry. There are a lot of opportunities for leaks, so be paitent.



ONE OTHER THING I JUST REMEMBERED
I'm guessing you haven't yet sync'd your ITBs. If one of those bad boys is way open (at idle), it'll skew the MAP reading for the whole engine.

Chris,

On Friday when It was holding idle and somewhat cooperating, I gave it a few revs just for the lulz and the MAP signal definitely changed:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1639856783.jpg

I haven't sync'ed the ITBs yet. I really haven't done much of anything as I only had it running and holding idle once. Every other time I was stuck in the driver's seat praying.

I do have a vacuum hand pump so I'll go through Each. And. Every. Hose. jsut to be sure there aren't any leaks I didn't catch...

You really should synch the ITBs as soon as possible- I found a lot of variation in mine- of course you need a running engine to do it. Do you have the linkage disconnected while running to test that one of them isn’t part way open?

For reference, I’m getting MAP in the low 50s on my PMOs at zero throttle.

Rutager

Right now the biggest problem is that I can't get it to run and hold idle consistently. So I think I'm limited in what I can actually do until the car holds idle.

Feels very catch-22.

Rutager- did you ever figure out how to smoke test your ITBs. I'm wondering if that might help isolate the source of the MAP leaks...?

No, didn’t figure out a great way to test mine, in fact it seemed like maybe my valves were leaking because it didn’t matter where my crank was, I was getting smoke out of several other stacks- and as I just wrote this, I realized that my vacuum lines all go to a common vacuum block, so of course the smoke would come out of multiple stacks- duh!

I’ll try again with each line blocked and valves to that cylinder shut. I also wonder if you got plugs that fit in each trumpet and sent smoke up the tailpipe if that would test them all with a few turns of the crank to open valves?

I’m also using an IAC and Al had me take my MAP off of 2&5 directly and the other cylinders get fed the idle air when open.

Since you have a vacuum tester, maybe put it on each throttle as it runs and see what the vacuum is?

This has been fun to follow along!

I was sitting here thinking the same thing Chris mentioned, did you sync your ITBs yet? You might also want to grab some more vac line and run one out the engine bay to wherever your ECU/Map sensor is to make sure there are no kinks (there may be some sharp bends if you ran it through the shift rod tunnel).

Chris, you should just head up to Chicago and help out one of these Saturdays :D

As for continuously fouling the plugs, you can get a spark plug cleaner from harbor freight to save yourself some funds if you have an air compressor: https://harborfreight.com/pneumatic-spark-plug-cleaner-32860.html?_br_psugg_q=spark+plug+cleaner

The advice from everyone else has been great. Be methodical, read through the start-up guide in the manual, and you'll get there. You'll also learn a hell of a lot about how engines and modern EFI work. It's fascinating.

Make sure to turn off any O2 correction. If you have a rich misfire, the O2 sensor sees it as being lean, and adds more fuel, making the issue worse.

With that said, your log shows it running pig rich off idle. Bad intake gaskets wouldn't cause this so seems like you more of a tuning issue.

Should be easy to lock your timing and verify with a light. Turn off ignition idle control initially so you don't chase your tail.

Post a log(s) with as many channels as possible. Could be an enrichment setting too.

All of this.

And after I get my truck aligned and install the new tires this week, I can probably make a trip up if you'd like a second set of hands & eyes. Can't bring my 911 for reasons I'm about to divulge in my own build thread. Well, that and totally insufficient heat for this weather.

This morning I got to work a bit early (and ignored the mountain of stuff I NEED to do) and spent some time with the car and tried to locate the air leak that's killing me.

I readjusted the butterflies so that at rest they're fully closed- as closed as I can get them.

I set the timing, or started to; I have the rotor pointed at the #1 notch with the crank at Z1. It was off a bit; hopefully this little adjustment will make a big difference.

All the plugs got pulled and cleaned with a brass brush and acetone... they look pretty darn good now.

I tried to isolate every part of the ITBs and find the air leak but without a running engine it's really hard, maybe impossible.

Here's what I have done:

- Sucked on the brake booster hose; it provides solid resistance but it's not air tight

- Sucked on each ITB hose; they each provide good resistance but are not air tight.

It should be noted that when I say that they provide resistance, imagine the sucking force needed to get a milkshake up a straw... I tried to use my little handheld vacuum pump but it was worthless and didn't register any vacuum (is the engine supposed to be able to hold a vacuum when not running??). When I assemble the manifold and suck on it the resistance drops to almost nothing and it's like free flowing air.

With that said and done, I'm hesitant to try and start the engine up and foul my plugs again.

I had an idea, probably a stupid one but one nonetheless.

Create a false vacuum signal to the ECU with the handheld vacuum pump, 50kpa is about 15inHg and the handheld can do that. That will simulate a good vacuum signal at idle and hopefully get the car pushing the right amount of fuel, not running stupid rich and holding idle which may then allow me to synch my ITB's and set my timing and measure the vacuum on each ITB and use some starter fluid to isolate the leak(s).

Other than that I really don't know how to find the leaks.

J,

The butterflies in your ITBs don't seal tightly enough to generate/hold vacuum. If they did, the car wouldn't run when you're off-throttle.
As such, you won't be able to check the vac system with it connected to the ITBs. You have to check the system independent of the ITBs and then connect it all.

I still think your 'air leak' is most likely due to poorly sync'd ITBs. One that's too open will destroy the vac signal for the lot.

You can circumvent the system completely and just connect the MAP to one TB. Disconnect the brake booster and the vac manifold and get it running. That should get you running well enough to sync the ITBs.

I'm actually just catching up on this thread and really enjoying it.... I can see why it's often on the front page!!! Thanks for sharing, I know it's a lot of work to document the happenings but some people (and you know who you are, Chris) are really good at it and make it entertaining. As they say, SUBSCRIBED.

I pre-synched my ITB's (the bored-out factory ones on my MFI motor) using a shop vac and the synchrometer. It turned out really well. Get 'em all close and then tweak them all at once if needed until you can do the synch properly with a smooth running motor.

This is going to come across as flippant and arrogant, and I really don't know, 100%, if I'm right. So let's call it devils advocate: why not unplug the map sensor and just run it on the TPS? I may prove myself wrong one day, but I don't understand why everyone is beating their heads against a wall trying to get a decent MAP signal from ITB's. I just don't see that it's going to happen.

Because all the cool kids do it this way...?

You're asking proper questions that assume I know a lick about what I'm doing here. If it wasn't already crystal clear, I'm flying by the seat of my pants, laying track as the train rolls and hoping that if I fake it long enough everyone will think I've made it!

----------

I got home (and ignored all the stuff I NEEDED to do like feed my kids, take care of the dog and pay attention to my wife [seems to be the trend today]) and did a bit of reading on ITBs and MAP vs Alpha-N.

Again, I don't know anything but from what I gathered your question Jonny is a ridiculously good one and the consensus of the Great And Powerful Interwebs is that trying to run MAP with ITBs is a fools errand, particularly for street cars.

At idle the MAP signal is going to be super noisy with ITBs and even more-so at startup, which is why Motec and Infinity use a hybrid system that starts with alpha-n and then switches at some point to MAP. But even then it seems that at 40% throttle the MAP signal will be like 90+ and not likely to change all that much at WOT.

It seems the benefit of MAP is when there are lots of altitude changes and the atmospheric pressure is fluctuating a lot and the ECU can't rely on assumptions of programmed curves. But again, the ECU is smarter than me and can get a barometric reading and earn its keep with some maths and correct for that.

I still think I'd like to give it a try because, I don't know, something about easy just doesn't appeal to me (um, title of this thread...) but Al did bake me up an alpha-n tune for my car and I have that in my pocket if I need.

I really wish I would have synched my ITBs before I installed them.

This is bloody brilliant.

It didn't feel so brilliant at the time because I used almost a whole roll of vinyl electrical tape to make an adapter between the small vacuum hose and the throttle body bore.

I believe they call this additive manufacturing these days. :D

It did work pretty well. I just got all the throttle plates closed as tightly as possible and then started with the bleed screws 2 full turns out and started from there. I went for balance over an outright number.

Back to the topic/rant of trying to get a clean vacuum signal from individual runner manifolds. I don't ever remember seeing anybody other than Porsche flat 6 people trying to do this. Go look at all the rest of the ITB setups in the world it just isn't done..... is it? Some 911 guy must have done it once and then it just became the way to do it?

Every time a cylinder is on the intake stroke is produces a vacuum on the one hose which is then going to try to build up vacuum in the vacuum manifold, but the five other cylinders are sitting there keeping it from happening, no differently than when you are trying to pull a vacuum with your tester.

I think it's also going to make things even tougher to get a decent signal if you're tying the brake booster into the manifold as well, especially without a check valve. The booster should be off a single manifold runner so you get the highest peak manifold vacuum to the booster. This is how individual throttle carbs have been working for years. PMO manifolds (including those supplied for EFI) come with a threaded fitting and a check valve that goes into one of the runners.

Don't worry, you aren't going to somehow run that one cylinder lean or rich and foul a plug, the path is a deadend and once vacuum is built up in the booster that's it - it's stored until you hit the brakes, that's why you can stop your car once when the motor stalls.

Now, I know people are running cars successfully using map for load sensing on ITB's but honestly I don't know how. I know JPnovak is on his project Minni and I'm not going to claim to be smarter than him.

Like I said I'm more than willing to be corrected and may well eat my words..... I'm going to be performing an ITB install on the Rot Rod and don't plan to have any sort of MAP sensor other than Baro. I'll correct for baro and IAT, both of which are pretty simple, and do warmup enrichment on CHT and leave it at that. For all the same reasons the map signal doesn't work I don't plan to run an IACV, either. Once the idle speed is set and the ITB's are synched I don't see the need for that.

mine is running fairly good on MAP but important to NOT have acc enrichment off the map signal otherwise engine will drown in fuel because as you said MAP signal is not a flat line.. AE has to be off TPS or switched off completely. I will try with TPS as well

If firing order is OK and all plugs are firing I would disable AE and O2 correction and reduce fuel significantly in the VE table to get it to run. Using MAP to start with. Worked for me