So guess who's back at work, not doing work... (where's the "this guy" emoji?)

Taking Jonny's sage advice I pulled the ITBs for bench testing. All of my new gaskets look perfect and I'm 100% confident I have no leaks there.

I rigged up my shop vac with a fitting to go into the bottom of each ITB. Very fancy and advanced stuff. Word to the wise- skip the regular electrical tape and go for the thicker insulated stuff; it saves tons of time.

I tested each ITB with my synchrometer. I tried to upload photos but Pelican is borked.

Suffice it to say I the results were eye opening.

-On each of the ITB banks the outer two ITBs read 0 on the synchrometer.

Hooray!

-On each of the TB banks the inner ITB was reading about 2 on the synchrometer.

WTF!!


I started working on the center ITBs and no amount of adjusting made a difference. So I took the ITB apart and cleaned the entire thing thinking that maybe there were some contaminants holding the butterfly open... With it squeaky clean I reassembled it and it made no difference.

Each of the center ITB's is leaking like a disaffected government employee.

I tested each center ITB independent of the others and they still leaked. I used my smoke machine to try an isolate the leak and it's coming from the butterfly shaft on either side of the ITB.


I have come to the following conclusion:
The design of the RHD ITBs makes the center ITB inherently leaky and as such a poor candidate for delivering a MAP signal. Now, I don't know anything about anything but that's the only conclusion I can think of. Please enlighten me.


I also did a lot more reading about ITBs and MAP and the overwhelming consensus from users and tuners is to just avoid it all together and just use Alpha-N. Some folks can get it to work but it seems incredibly unreliable, very finicky and just flawed. So that's what I'll be doing.


This brings me to the question of the manifold and what to do with the manifold and the hoses...

I was thinking of two options:

1.) Run the brake booster directly off the #3 ITB which is not leaking. My brake booster hose has a check valve so that should be fine and cap or plug the other hose ports on the ITBs

2.) Run all the hoses to the manifold but install check valves on each one and then run the brake booster as it currently is. This might also give me the option of running a hybrid system with Alpha-N for throttle below a certain point... maybe 30% (??) and then switching to MAP.

Is there's a known good recipe (MS + ITB + vacuum manifold + MAP sensor + base map) then it seems reasonable to expect the car to be able to idle and drive.

Whacky ITB calibration wouldn't help. Stock cams? If so, seems like getting a decent MAP signal shouldn't be too troublesome. Appropriate filtering would be needed, and as trond said, you can't run AE off MAP.

Biggest reason to not go down the Alpha-N route right now would be if there's a good baseline map that uses the MAP sensor. Alpha-N fueling tables can be tricky to get dialed in whereas MAP vs RPM vs VE tables are "logical" and something functional shouldn't be that hard to build from scratch.

I also don't think the timing has been synced. The ECU needs to have the timing 'locked' at say 10*, and then a timing light needs to be pointed at the crank pulley to confirm it matches what the ECU is commanding. You then (most likely) adjust an offset in the ECU to get them to match.
"I set the timing, or started to; I have the rotor pointed at the #1 notch with the crank at Z1. It was off a bit; hopefully this little adjustment will make a big difference."

Yeah, I need to synch the timing but I need a running car to do that and I don't have that right now because the vacuum leak is so large that the ECU is dumping fuel as if it were WOT and fouling my plugs faster than the car can start. It's a feedback loop...

I mean, can I just eliminate the center ITBs from the vacuum manifold if they're the source of a massive vacuum leak and just run the car off the other 4?

Check valves on the center ITB hoses?

I think you're expecting too much from the RHD's (EDIT - THIS IS NOT A CRITICISM OF THE ITB's, nothing wrong!!) - if you've got a reading of 2.0 on the center, maybe increase that to 2.2, and open up the outter ones to match. I'm not familiar with these throttles but assume they have bypass screws for idle air?? Think about this - if they were all zero the engine would just die. You just need to find a nice balanced idle where all the cylinders ingest the same amount of air (since they are all getting the same amount of fuel).

Just think how much more tidy and simpler things will be without that vacuum manifold..... SmileWavy

Julian,

If all of your ITBs are synced to zero flow, the car won't run at idle.
IIRC, my ITBs at ~900rpm were around 4.75. (I forget the units)

Can confirm that this is how I ran my car for some time. So much tidier in the engine bay, no vac leaks, no MAP except for baro. Not a terrible way to go.

Once you get them balanced, the car is running, and you can tweak them, they will all be pulling the same amount of vacuum, more or less. The middle ones aren't leaking so much as the throttles are effectively open more than the other 4. You need to even that out. The car will run a lot better.

It doesn't matter what you do, MAP or Alpha-N, you are going to be tweaking the tables to get it to run right. Don't expect a base map to get you any closer than you've gotten - there are just too many variables.

36% TPS, 3000 RPM, 93 kPa shouldn't result in off-the-scale rich AFR of 10:1 if the baseline map is close and everything else is working properly.

In other words, 93 kPa is a reasonable MAP reading for 36% TPS at 3000 RPM. So why isn't the fueling correct?

If a complete log is shared then maybe something obviously wrong will be identified.

The log doesn't show that. Seems to show 12ish AFR at IDLE, and <10 at part throttle. O2 can be incorrect though if there's misfires and/or leaks, but these would make it show leaner than actual.

Timing can probably verified while cranking. Won't be perfect but would be a much closer ballpark.

O2 correct needs to be turned off. It looks to be oscillating at idle. Is it turned off?

Get the TB's balanced as much as reasonably possible, switch to alpha N and start tweaking the fuel map to get a stable idle. Lock the ignition timing. Turn off O2 correction. Monitor AE to ensure it's not being triggered. Point a IR thermometer at the exhaust tubes to balance the airflow.

Based on my experience....Typically, the airflow measurement will be 5 to 7 kg/h while idling at 1000 rpm or so....and still have a good MAP signal. However, if there are no major vacuum leaks found and the MAP signal, at idle, is above 70 or so, your not going to get much signal resolution between fully closed (butterflies cracked open slightly) and fully open pedal /butterfly travel.....and then it is time to head into Alpha-N mode.

regards,
al

So I think I figured out how to smoke the ITBs. I used the rubber cone that came with my machine and put it in the trumpet and then used a vacuum hose clamp to squeeze the vacuum line. I got no leaks on #4- my tester is an OTC and it has a ball indicator that gives a visual indicator on the machine as well as looking for smoke traces. #1 has a smoke plum coming out of the idle screw and I think had an open intake valve as the indicator still showed high.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1640461217.jpg

Rutager,
Last log of yours, i reviewed, your MAP signal was very good....like 50 or so at idle with the TPS at 0....what makes you think you gave a significant vacuum leak? None of the ITBs are likely to be completely airtight.......but your system almost appears to be as good as they get.......based on such a good MAP signal.

regards,
al

Hi Al,

Just a matter of making sure everything was in good kit so I know that I’m not trying to tune a mechanical fault out of the system. Remember, I have an IAC, so my MAP is only coming off of 2&5, so could still have had leaks on the other 4.

Didn’t take long and now I know.

I loaded your last tune, thanks, but Mother Nature and the MN salt trucks stopped my on road testing. I will do some up and down the driveway cold running and idle tests.

The one and maybe only good thing about winter is that you can tune cold starts multiple times a day!

Merry Christmas Al, I appreciate all the good after sales support and will send you another datalog soon.

Rutager

Get it running at 2000 RPM and any leaks won't be a factor. It'll let you get the ignition timing set, check warmup enrichment settings and get it running smoothly.

Merry Christmas Rutager....we'll continue in the new year...and/or when the big thaw comes.
I expect that with your ITBs airflow balanced..I.E. all cracked open slightly and airflow measured and adjusted to match, within reason,.... and having the very good MAP readings, you are ready to rock and roll.....

regards,
al

Day 8

Well, if it wasn’t clear thus far, the last flurry of posts should make it crystal: I really haven’t the slightest clue as to what I’m doing. Ok, to be fair to me, I kind of know what I’m doing but lots of the subtle nuances of working on a 43 year old German car and EFI/ITB conversions are just foreign to me. Let’s remember, one year ago I had only ever changed a flat tire.

Before we’re wise, we’re not…

I’m trying to learn as fast as I can and luckily there are a whole bunch of folks (you!) who have been ridiculously patient and helpful thus far. I feel like if we (hopefully) meet one day I’ll slinging bottles of champagne from the trunk of the 911.

Anyhow, back to the car.

I decided to take a break from the back of the car while I’m waiting on some packages and turn my focus to the front of the car. The easy part… ha!

Remember when I said I cut the long hood extension off the short hood. Well, I did. I had originally welded a new hood extension to the short hood and began working those billion MIG welds. Well, I decided I wasn’t satisfied with it so I cut it off and started anew, this time with TIG.

I should have done this from the get-go but I was young and dumb back then.

It’s a this point in the story that our hero (me) either makes a critical error that seals his fate as dragon amuse bouche, or threads the needle, succeeds and wins the heart of the fair maiden… Now, being a Chicagoan, a Cubs and Bears fan too boot, I’m all too familiar with snatching DEFEAT from the jaws of VICTORY. Luckily this time fate was on my side and I was able to successfully weld the new panel to the short hood. It ain’t prefect but it’s completely workable and I’m totally ok with that. Some fiberglass filler and it’ll be fine.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1640735352.jpg
The photo doesn't do it justice... this is smooth and really quite nice!

More importantly, I felt confident to tackle the light boxes now.

The light boxes I bought looked really great in raw metal. Then I primed them with weld-thru and frankly, they’re just a substrate for the filler that will be necessary to create the actual shape. This is not to say they’re worthless- I couldn’t have made these myself without a full metal shop which I don’t have so they’re fine. It’s just that the bends are rough, there are dents and tool marks all which will have to be glazed over. I’m not really surprised or complaining as I figured they’d need ancillary work, I just want other DIYers to know that these parts are really just “body shop ready.”

I’ve procured a small fortune worth of Evercoat products, and a mountain of sanding blocks and boards to assist in making the welded panels look acceptable. I’m actually looking forward to this part as it’s more my wheelhouse and I have much more confidence in my ability to work with filler over metal.

A wise man once said “don’t quote me boy, I ain’t said ***** yet”

We’ll see how I feel about filler once I’m covered in it ;)

While TIG was a great choice for the hood extension it was not for the light boxes. I started out with TIG but the light boxes were so thin, maybe 26 or 28 gauge steel that all I was doing was burning through them or making a righteous mess- I can TIG but super thin sheet metal is still really difficult for me. Luckily the compound curves of the light boxes reduced the distortion to almost nothing so MIG was fine.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1640735526.jpg
This was without a doubt the most scary thing I've done- an angle grinder to otherwise fine fenders!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1640735526.jpg
We have welds!

I then began dressing down the welds, first with a Dremel and cut off disc and then with various angle grinders and pneumatic sanders…. You aren’t working hard until you kill a Harbor Freight angle grinder. To be fair, this $10 tool lasted a decade. A DECADE!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1640735618.jpg
RIP Harbor Freight angle grinder, you served valiantly

So with the hood now long and the light boxes in, the heavy body work is all done and I feel pretty good about it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1640735684.jpg
All ground down and baby butt smooth

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1640735684.jpg
Oh yes..

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1640735684.jpg
OH YES!

I’m enjoying your build thread - it seems like you’re having fun and possess the right attitude! Front end is looking really nice. Congrats!!

Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory!
This is so Chicago sports it hurts my soul. :D

Looking great, Julian!
Keep chugging along. 2022 looms ever nearer.

That's looking great!!!

Day 9

I hope everyone has had the holiday they wanted and is ready for 2022!

This weekend saw the first snow storm in Chicago which means not only is it raining snow, screams from sledding children and heart attacks from snow shovelers, it's also raining salt and that means the roads are shot until the spring rains. Or more likely late winter rains, thank you global warming.

So that means that there's no real rush to get the engine work finished because I can't take the car out to tune it or even drive it so much of that will be on the back burner.

I was able to get another full day working on the car without having to wake up at the crack of dawn which felt great.

I filled in and welded up the mirror and antenna holes as well as the rocker trim holes. This car had enough holes to fill the Albert Hall! The mirror mounting area was pretty mangled and I tried to flatten it out but it’s going to need some filler for sure. I haven’t yet decided on which mirrors I’m using (leaning toward partially painted bullet mirrors.)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641148445.jpg
Goodbye flag mirror!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641148532.jpg
Though my father was and I am by extension, Swiss, I'm happy to see these holes gone!


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641148683.jpg
Porsche really just drilled and screwed rockers into the body...geez!


Oh, hey, you know what showed up... BUMPERS!!

If you’ve been obsessively perusing the Parts-For-Sale section of Pelican (wait, I’m not the only one, right?!) you many have noticed I listed a whole bunch of bumpers. I was able to order very nice fiberglass bumpers from Anna and Siegfried Thom in Germany and when they arrived I was both elated at how beautiful they looked and devastated because they didn’t fit my car. There was a bit of miscommunication and I ended up with parts for a non-narrow body car.

So, I went looking for the right bumpers and landed on Rennspeed. I used a Rennspeed IROC rear bumper for my first go-round of deleting the IBs last winter and It was a perfect fit and the finish was surprisingly good so I figured why reinvent the wheel and try another vendor. Also, the price was right and given that even the most expensive glass pieces still require work I'm ok with any imperfections.

With a new R-style bumper in hand I started with the lovely process of figuring out how to mount it. This bumper has some bizarre fiberglass flanges for mounting but they certainly don’t fit my car so I cut those interlopers off! I fabricated two aluminum brackets with rivnuts and slotted holes (kinda hard to see but they’re there) so that I can mount the bumper to the front bulkhead. This will make removal easy as the bolts will be accessible from the trunk.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641148768.jpg
Rivnuts, you're my best friend.


In order to find the location of the holes I threaded some bolts into the rivnuts and dabbed some white grease on their heads. When the bumper is fitted and in position the grease leaves marks and all I have to do is drill the holes.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641148906.jpg
Lipstick works too, if that's your jam...no judging.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641149054.jpg
A very scientific method


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641149188.jpg
The bolts allow a bit of adjustment and are rock solid when tightened.


The bumper will also be secured to the bottom of the fender light boxes I just welded in. I would love to add an outrigger support from the hole in the light bucket to the fender but that would interfere with the carrera oil cooler and AC condenser (damn, I still need to start that project!). That said, with just the brackets, the bumper is solid, in place and not going anywhere.

With the bumper fitted I temporarily placed the front rubber seal in place to see how everything aligned…. Pretty damn good, in fact, the measurements are identical across the bumper, so…perfect! I'm elated with this result as just a few weeks ago getting to this point seemed like a huge mountain to climb.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641149188.jpg
That's damn pretty, if I do say so myself.


I still have a bit of body work to do; filling up the spot welds from where the rear reflector mounting panel was, finishing off the hood by welding an inner panel on the underside for structural rigidity and folding over the lip, and finishing up an aluminum filler panel for the front of the car where the longhood latch panel would be. But for now I feel really good about where I’m at.

Day 10

Sometimes it’s the littlest things that consume the most amount of time. Little things like concealed filler panels and seal channels.

I really wanted to wrap up the work on the front end of the car so that was my focus for this installment of “how can Julian injure himself today” or “When Well Enough Can’t Be Left Alone”

I installed and started to weld in the stiffening panel that goes under the hood extension. Of course, I ran out of gas. All I had on hand was pure argon but with the MIG that was a waste of time and gas. So, the welding will have to wait to be completed. In the process I burned my finger.

I did fold over the lip of the hood extension and hammer/dolly it down. It’s remarkable how much stiffer and solid the hood is with just that little action. I’ll throw a few welds on that seam once I get more gas just to keep it stiff. I also hit my fingernail with the hammer and now have a nice blood blister to go with my burned finger.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641768526.jpg
This little piece of steel does a remarkable job at stiffening up the extension


With the hood basically done (ok, not really but more done that not) I could focus on the front gap between the trunk front panel and new bumper. Some choose to leave that area open but I wanted it to be more complete so I spent some time beating the living hell out of some aluminum and shaping it to fit. I chose aluminum because it’s easier to shape and won’t rust. Aluminum is also great for slicing through human skin…yup, add that one to the list.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641768721.jpg
Spending so much time on parts nobody will see...

Another issue that backdates that don’t replace the trunk front panel have is that of the seals as there’s often nowhere to mount them. With the front filler panel complete I started fabricating another aluminum channel to receive the front bumper/hood seal. This darn thing took so much time; curving it, adding 3 bends all with just hand tools was kind of ridiculous. If I knew how much time was going to be consumed with the aluminum forming, I would have rented time at a metal shop to use their English wheel/pneumatic hammer and bead rollers… lesson learned. I probably could have also just bought a new trunk front panel but then I would need a new hood and that slope is slippery… next thing you know all the body panels are aluminum or carbon fiber…

In any event, I got the channel all shaped and riveted to the front filler panel and the seam fitted. It goes in really tight and stays put. Currently the whole shebang is just screwed in place and I’m not sure if I’ll rivet it, screw it or devise some other time consuming esoteric mounting system.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641768818.jpg
Even though it's thin, shaping aluminum into a complex curved profile isn't easy.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641768818.jpg
The underside of the seal fitting onto the profile


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641768818.jpg
The top of the seal on the profile.


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641768818.jpg
The seal profile on the aluminum filler panel ready to be riveted

The best part is that the hood closes and the hood/bumper, and seal are all aligned and even across the front of the car. I know it’s a small thing and this car isn’t a show car, but it always irks me when people omit the seals; for some reason it just draws the eye to any irregularities.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641769043.jpg
Everything "dry fitted" in place. It seems to work


http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641769043.jpg
Looks legit

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641769043.jpg
Even-ness

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1641769043.jpg
Even more evenn-ess

I still have to deal with the hood lock mechanism but I have a plan for that.

So with a bit of my actual blood now on/in the car I'm feeling pretty good about reaching the end of my time with the front of the car. I still have to deal with the rear bumper but that should be pretty easy, after all it's just a bolt on piece...right?

Day 11 Part 1

Some days are spent doing a lot of little things that individually feel irrelevant but then once you’ve swept up and put everything away in order to take in the day’s work, you’re pleasantly surprised. This Saturday was one of those days, and hey, I didn’t cut, burn, or hammer myself. In the words of the immortal Carl Spackler: “so I got that goin’ for me.”

Let’s start with the back of the car. All engine work is on hold until it’s a bit warmer and I can start tuning the car, but I still have to get the rear bumper installed. The Rennspeed bumper is thick and sturdy (still pretty light though) so it won’t require a lot of mounting points. That said, there were no brackets glassed in, tabs, or any mounting provisions like every other bumper I’ve bought- all 6 of them. I wrote Rennspeed and was told to “just bolt it up to the sides of the rear quarters.” Um, no. While I’m sure it would work, I’d rather not have the body carrying any weight. And that means making brackets and glassing them in.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429154.jpg
Super fancy!

I bent some aluminum, drilled some holes into the plate (I saw my father and his flying buddies do this when they mounted flat aluminum panels to carbon or fiberglass- the holes act as “keys” for the resin which bonds to other resin well but not as well to the aluminum. It helps lock it all in place.) and then glassed it all in. I used 4oz fiberglass for its flexibility.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429206.jpg
Fiberglass is amazing stuff, I still hate working with it.

Once dry I installed some rivnuts and got it all fitted up to the car. This way the weight of the bumper will be carried by the shock mounting points and brackets and not by the wings of the bumper and body metal. And the rear fenders will be used for alignment only. Overkill, maybe but I feel better about it and who doesn’t like making more work for themselves.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429206.jpg
This should do better than "bolting it to the sheetmetal"

While dealing with the rear bumper I glassed in the single exhaust opening. I really wish these fiberglass pieces just came with no openings; we can cut our own… oh well. I threw on a coating of fiberglass filler and roughed it smooth. The final sanding will come when I prep the bumper for paint. I also cut in some notches for the muffler pipes. I’ll line the inside of the bumper with self-adhesive heat shield- I used it on my last rear bumper and it worked amazingly- the rear bumper was only ever slightly warm even after hours of driving.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429242.jpg
Out, damn hole, out!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429242.jpg
I'll rue this day when I end up cutting in a hole for a rallye out

And with that the bumper is hung and rock solid. The side seals fit nicely though they need to be trimmed. I haven’t yet decided what to do about the center panel-to-body seal; I guess I’ll have to make another aluminum mounting channel. Yay.

I picked up a pair of used TRE R tail lights but am not sure if I’ll use them yet. I now have USA-spec lenses, Euro-spec lenses, clear lenses and R tail lights with both amber/red and red/white lenses. Hi, my name is Julian and I have a tail light problem.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429457.jpg
I swear, I can quit any time I want.

Part 2 to follow...

Day 11 Part 2

With the rear bumper all good to go for sanding and paint prep (feels good to type that!) I moved to the front of the car once again. There’s still a lot to do up here and I have a feeling this will be a long part of the journey.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429829.jpg
Baby's got back

I mentioned that the light box frames that I welded to my fenders were just ok. I take that back, they are mediocre at best. Honestly, I should have just fabricated my own. Yes, it would have taken more time but the result would have been better. These were so wonky when they arrived that I seriously wondered if they weren’t for a different car, luckily the price was right. I worked them a lot to get them to fit but even then, they were just barely better than nothing. I guess I just didn’t have the confidence that I could do it myself… If I only knew then what I know now...

Another thing that I would have done differently is to weld them to the bottom of the existing fender and not cut down the fender to accommodate the light box frame sheet metal. I asked on the forum and everyone said to cut the fender, and while it worked, I think just welding to the bottom of the existing metal would have been wiser and easier… oh well, maybe someone will learn from this.

I got the light boxes and lenses installed but the seals didn’t fit- they were too large and the gaps were uneven and gross. I research this and apparently there are no seals on the planet that aren’t junk. I pondered my options and played a bit of “choose your own adventure”:

1.) Cut the frames off and make my own; oy vey, a lot of work and no guarantees.
2.) Buy new fenders in metal or glass; a huge financial penalty and no guarantees that they won’t also need work.
3.) Ignore the problem and chalk it up to “old car”; I really liked this option but know it would kill me later on.
4.) Fix what I have; oh come on, you knew this was going to be the winner!

I opted to fix what I have with fiberglass reinforced filler to compensate for the gaps and unevenness. I have no illusions about this car- it’s going to have more icing than a kid’s birthday cake. Haters be damned, I’m ok with that.

I seriously considered using lead to address these issues but after researching I came to the conclusion that lead was expensive, had a high learning curve and not fundamentally better or worse than modern filler. Using Evercoat fiber filler (body filler with ground fiberglass in it) I laid down several thin layers until I had the base of the profile that I wanted and the fender-to-light transition was really nice. The Evercoat product is pretty amazing. It goes on really easily and is pretty stiff so it doesn’t sag too much. It starts to harden in about 5 mins so you have to work fluidly. Then you have about 10 mins to use a rasp or file to do the rough shaping/removal. Then the stuff turns into stone. If you don’t do the rough shaping while it’s curing, god help you and the thousands of sheets of sandpaper you’re going to go through. After a few passes with filler and file I was happy with the result. It’ll need more shaping and regular filler but this is good. This is really good.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429829.jpg
Fixing flawed metal with filler

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429912.jpg
Crisp

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429912.jpg
A good first attempt

I also laid down a coating of the fiber filler on the hood- both the top and the underside. Though nobody will see it, I wanted the underside where the reinforcing panel was welded to be even and for it all to feel smooth- this part you’ll feel even if you don’t see it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429983.jpg
Just because you can't see it doesn't mean you won't notice it

I mentioned that I needed to deal with the hood latch so I cut it off and welded on an extension. I can now pop the hood and lift it up enough to get my hand in there without the use of Origami. I’m not sure if I’ll use rubber hood tie downs or not but having this addressed is a nice option.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642430004.jpg
Not pretty but it works!

I picked up a few used horn grills (one original and one aftermarket) and low and behold the aftermarket piece is junk. I actually don’t think I’m going to use the chrome horn grills- I have a plan for that opening… but more on that later

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642430004.jpg
Aftermarket parts, I hate you. Porsche OEM parts I hate you too

So, a bunch of small projects complete that individually seemed minimal but together I now have the essence of a long hood; bumpers fitted and hung, seals fitted, fenders welded and shaped, and hood addressed.

It should be a walk in the park from here, right ;)

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642429829.jpg
Oh, hello there friend

Looking great, Julian!
I'll call you when I need help with fiberglass. ;)

Look great! Always nice to see the final form start to take shape.

I am loving this thread, car is looking great!

Wish we had like buttons. This is fun to follow along.

I'm getting ready to start an ITB (drive by wire), coil on plug, and backdate on my '79. So this thread has been gold!!! I will have many questions over the next few months but my first... where did you source the hood extension and the light boxes? Would you recommend that route vs just purchasing fiberglass?

[mention]sozaysven [/mention] sounds like a fun project!
I don’t know the first thing about anything but the brain trust here will certainly be your best resource when you have questions.

The long hood extension can be got from two sources: Stuttgart Classica and from Pelican Member Michel Beaudry in Canada (michelbeaudry935 at hotmail com).

The metal fender light frames can be got from TRE Motorsports in California and from ST Parts in Germany (st.parts @ hotmail com) but you need a tax ID to import from ST Parts. You can get fiberglass glue-on ones from Rennspeed too but I don’t know anything about them.

I chose this route as I wanted a project and to feel like I made this car, I’m also cheap and the idea of buying new steel hood and fenders to be unpalatable. Of course you can buy fiberglass for a lot less, Rennspeed has the fenders for 800 a piece but even fiberglass pieces add up.

Ether way, the pieces will need work- fiberglass is notorious for requiring lots of adjusting to make it fit. Then again, steel also demands a fair share of labor.

I guess it all depends on how much of a project you want… either way it’ll be fun!

Mid-week Slippery Slope Update.

What does one do between weekend work sessions. Research, that's what!

And by research I mean scrolling infinitely on Instagram, Pelican and the world wide intertubes for inspiration images and seductresses. Gentlemen, this is a dangerous pastime because for DIY idiots like myself the shots of professional built Porsches permeate my creative brain and have me thinking that I too can tackle impossible projects.

I have thus far been able to ward off these sirens with a glance at my rapidly dwindling bank account, quickly shrinking calendar and ultimately coming to my senses.

I fear I may have finally reached a point where the temptress's song is too much and I'm steering my ship toward the rocky coast.

Hi everyone, I'm Julian and I hate the fuel filler on my Porsche.

Mine is kinda bent and doesn't sit flush so it looks stupid, it opens but needs the force of a thousand angry German grandmothers to close it and it just looks meh.

I've been thinking a lot about options:

1.) Center hood cap: everyone does this and it's cool but for a street car that's going to be used daily it seems impractical.
2.) Hidden filler in the trunk: super clean but inconvenient
3.) Exposed RSR fender filler like on Emory's 911K: very cool and convenient but not original.
4.) Pop-up flush fuel filler: clean, convenient and novel
5.) Do nothing and be happy that Porsche designed a good fuel filling system: path of least resistance and perfectly adequate.

The more I think about it the more I like #4

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642694104.jpg

Or if I want it painted:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1642694859.jpg

Small, flush with the fender, easily accessible and convenient and unique (ok, not really all that unique but I can pretend)

My question dear brethren, is am I falling down a rabbit hole? Is this something that should just be left alone?

Ultimately I have to wonder how I'd do it:

Drain gas tank, remove rubber connector between tank and neck, seal up the tank, remove all the filler stuff from the fender, weld in an extension to the fuel neck, cut a hole in the fuel lid for the neck extension, weld up the fuel lid, trim the extension, weld it to the fender, weld in the fuel cap... Party time.

Sound right?

I welcome thoughts, hopes and prayers and particularly and guidance, advice, or photos anyone has that can help.

Something custom should be done.

i assume the cap unscrews on the pop up. So is the base welded to the panel? If so that means the fuel nozzle gasket presses against the paint.
I like the idea. But how do you protect the paint from scuffs and gas?

I like the magnet door with the box. I assume the nozzle will fit in the door and any drips would end up inside with a drain attached.

I'm leaning that direction with mine.
Or a pop open headlight with the filler behind it as Focker suggested in another thread. :D :D :D

I have nothing constructive to add.
I'm just here to commiserate and hope we can find, and implement, our fuel filler fixes before April is upon us.
**Derrick, I know you have more time than that. But you'll take as much time as you allot. So get to work, hippie.

Chris, I singularly blame you for this problem I now find myself obsessing over. Until you mentioned it I was blissfully ignorant to my deep need to fuel filler solutions. Damn you!


Thinking about the options:

The pop up one pops up when pressed and unscrews to reveal the filler neck. No provisions for drips as it's more of a motorcycle product. I guess there's no paint protection but I'm ok with that because my paint is meh and it'll never be bling.

The other one is just a spring loaded door panel that pops up when pressed to reveal the cap. That one may be better as the sheet metal is oversized and could be trimmed to fit the existing opening and I may not need to tinker with the filler neck at all. This one would allow for drips to be caught and potentially a fuel bib to remain. This seems "easiest" but kinda feels like a lot of work for basically what exists now, just round.

Ugh, is this me talking myself into an RSR style filler cap?

I accept the responsibility.

As such, I have an idea.
You leave yours alone and we combine our super-powers* to do something to mine. :D



*Super-powers include Julian's fabrication prowess, my willingness to try dumb things, and our unilateral insistence on doing everything the hard way.

HAHAHA!

The hard way is the fun way!

I'm going to think on this one a bit more. I now have so many tab on my browser open. I'm deep into aircraft fuel caps now.

Julian,
I have an RSR project in the queue...and I've also been thinking about fuel fillers. The drivers side filler lid has already been welded closed on my car and i like the idea of having the fender smooth with no door. That helps me to focus on either a through the hood or under the hood filler.
I like the looks of the through the hood fillers, but I don't like the idea of dragging the fill/hose across the hood...ok for racing, not so much for a daily driver/canyon carver..... so, I'm thinking that an under the hood filler might be best. A slight pita, but worked fine on the old VW bugs.

regards,
al

An under hood filler isn't really that bad. I've been running one for two years.
The only times it's remotely inconvenient are during a downpour with wind or when you have the whole trunk smashed full of stuff. And even those can be mitigated with careful parking and the use of a paper towel, respectively.

If you have the means and the time I am for something cool like the pop up #4. Definitely the way I would go and have been considering for some time.....just hate to repaint a perfect fender.

Looking good! While you’re looking at the front bumper / valence I recommend to trial fit the AC condenser. There are numerous was to do a backdated front end and it’s easier to resolve fitment now.

Also worked great on those old 356s I think all the way until the T6 body style (1963 +/-?) when the thru fender passenger side filler appeared. That is a lot of Porsches with factory under hood fillers to draw inspiration from.

Also at the pump people look at you extra funny when they wonder to themselves why you have the hood open and are pouring gas directly on the engine :D