Hey Julian, would you say adding the hood/fender extensions might actually be ideal as to not have to worry about fitting new body panels (steel) and welding in a new latch panel?

My 79' "appears" to have never been wrecked and no rust (Cali car) and my biggest fear is panels not lining up or having to rig something to get it to fit properly.

I apologize if you addressed this already,

Thanks,

Thanks,

Hey Hulley,

That's a rally good question for which I don't have a simple answer. I guess I can just frame my decision rubric.

As I mentioned at the beginning I wanted a project, one that I could do all myself and look back on and proudly say that yes, I did that, and that too, and yup that also... all by myself. For me it was and still is really important that this project is the fruits of my labor. I debated farming the work out but ultimately felt that for me, and this is not a criticism of others' approach, that I wouldn't be proud if I simply paid for the project to be completed.

Did I mention that I have no wrenching experience at all and only a bit of stick welding from college. I wanted this adventure.

I looked at buying new metal fenders and hood, and fiberglass fenders and hood and ultimately decided against it for a few reasons.

1.) Even a car in amazing condition will have idiosyncrasies- hand built and 40 years old these things are far from perfect. That means that any new part is going to need massaging to fit.
2.) Cost. New metal fenders are like $3500 plus shipping. Fiberglass are $1600 plus shipping

I'd ask these questions of yourself:

DIY or shop doing the work?
Do you have a surplus of time or money (or both or neither?)
What are your fabrication skills like?
Do you have a timeline?

I have thoroughly enjoyed the process thus far and even with some of the disappointments (really, just a realignment of my unrealistic expectations) I am so proud of what I've done thus far. I don't know if I'd feel the same if I wrote a check (yes, I know I didn't fabricate everything...)

I say go the total DIY route- Ahh Garage Time from Tom, Rennch from Mike and Home Built By Jeff from Jeff have been invaluable youTube resources- if you haven't, give them a watch to see how/what they did and try to put yourself in their shoes...

You only have one life so may as well jump in the deep end!!

Thanks Julian,

I have quite a bit of experience wrenching on cars but have never learned to weld. I could and plan on doing this myself and then have a friend with a welder and know how come over and help me out. I have always loved old cars and one of the many things I love about old 911s is that they are simple and easy (?) to work on. I don't really have a timeline per se but wouldn't want it down for too long as I really enjoy driving. Also, those Youtube channels are already on my playlist, total wealth of knowledge!

Thanks so much, really enjoy your thread.

Hulley,

If you have a proficient welder who will give you time for beer/pizza, you're light years ahead of me and many DIY folk. With that info I say go for it, the money you save on fenders and hood will easily be consumed by other parts of the project ;)

Thanks, Julian!

Day 12… kinda

Unfortunately, this week saw both my 5-year old daughter and wife test positive for Covid-19. We mask, vaccinate and follow all the precautions but at this point it’s not really a matter of “if” but “when.” They’re doing fine, having all their vaccinations and weathering it well, but still. My 8-year old son and I haven’t tested positive and we’re hoping that remains… doubtful.

In any event this seriously put a hamper on the “see ya in 6 hours while I go play with my toys, honey” time. That said, after my wife went to bed, I was able to get away for a few hours. Hardly a marathon work session but we do what we can.

After Chris inceptioned angst about the fuel filler into my brain I had to exorcize those demons!

Citizens and countrymen of P-ville, I present to you a manifesto*:

Any change to the vehicle must either improve the performance or enhance the aesthetics. Performance is defined as the motoring quality of the vehicle on the road or the ability of the driver to operate and enjoy the experience of the vehicle. Aesthetics is defined as the purest expression of the vehicle without visual distraction; everything that is necessary to achieve the owner’s vision and nothing more. If said change does not meet that criteria it is superfluous and should not be executed.

*which may or may not be well thought out and free of punctuation errors


With respect to performance or function, there’s no improving on the current fuel filling- the fender flap is perfectly positioned, works as it should without thought and as evidence by a 30-year run; vetted by time.

Aesthetically, it sucks. It’s a break in the smooth lines of the fender, it’s asymmetric and feels like a compromise.

I quickly nixed the idea of a flush circular door as that was really no different than the current filler and just a lot of work. I also nixed the idea of a flush pop-up fuel cap or through-fender cap (a la Emory’s 911 K) as functionally they’re both weak points as there’s no tank security; gas can be siphoned or the contents of the tank can be compromised. Perhaps for a race car they offer a performance benefit but not for a street car. Aesthetically, they both become distractions on an otherwise smooth and flawless symmetrical fender, crying for attention that draws away from the otherwise flawlessly harmonious design (don’t even get me started on the single driver’s mirror). So, by that logic there’s really only one solution: full on fuel filler delete and installation of a compact nuclear reactor core that never requires filling to power the car.

But since I can’t charge that to my credit card, I decided to put the fuel fuller under the hood. Functionally it’s a compromise, I know- I will have to reach with my hand to pull a lever to pop open a metal door, exit the car and use my hands to open the door and again use my hands to twist a cap to access the fuel neck whereby I can insert the gas nozzle and fill the car. Wait, that sounds eerily familiar, maybe it’s not a functional change after all. ;)

So that means draining and pulling the fuel tank, modifying it by cutting off the existing neck, welding it shut and installing a new fuel neck.

I drained, removed and drained the fuel tank. A shop vac made quick work of the little fuel remaining; the hose hooked up to the outlet of the vac and the filler neck while the tank was “tumbled around” blew out all the remaining fuel and after a few hours it was almost odor free. Hopefully by next week it’ll be ready to start working on.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643047648.jpg
Ready for another devil-may-care adventure

I figured that was going to be all I got done but that only took about an hour so I decided to go all in and weld up the fender. I tore out all the existing plumbing (I had moved the washer tank to the trunk last year) and dove in. Whee!

I used the existing fuel door and tacked and welded it all in and then dressed down the welds. It was ok. I probably should have created a filler panel but without a metal shop that becomes much more difficult.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643047707.jpg
So long sucka!

I threw on a layer of fiberglass filler and hit it with the file. I’m using fiber filler anywhere there’s a weld because I like the idea of some additional stiffness and support. Overkill with perfect welds for sure but I ain’t perfect so it gives me piece of mind.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643047762.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643047762.jpg
Remember what I said about icing… I wasn’t kidding.

I called it a day as it was 11pm and I wanted to get some sleep in anticipation of a big sledding day on Sunday with the kids.

Last week I also received and installed my new Eastwood 30/60 scroll compressor and while it was expensive, I will use it for my work and the performance is so superior to the one I had before and it’s quieter than my HVAC system which is just great. It is so choice. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643047827.jpg
You sexy thing, you!

I also noticed something interesting when I was getting into my other car- a Nissan Murano:

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643047932.jpg
Well, Fuch me!

.
Interesting choice in Garage Footwear. :D

lolololol

What, you don’t dress up on days you know you’re going to fondle your Porsche? [emoji12]

Day 13… again, kinda…

With my wife still dealing with Covid (my daughter is A-Ok and me and my son are still negative) I’m still on double dad duty and as such car time is seriously limited.

That said I was able to steal three whole hours Saturday night to go try and get something done.

With the fuel door gone my commitment to an alternative solution was locked and loaded, even if I wasn’t quite sure how that was going to work out. Last week I ordered a bolt on fuel neck with aluminum billet cap- discreet and effective.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643669344.jpg
All of $40 compared to the $400 for an RSR style filler!

I also scrounged up a shallow stainless steel bowl.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643668901.jpg
Apologies to my dog who is now eating off the floor...

See where this is going?

I honestly don’t think a drip tray is all that necessary, maybe for concourse cars or sloppy fillers but I like making more work for myself so I figured why not. Luckily it was a success and wouldn’t’ you know it, it holds water!

Now for the no turning back moment, on which this thread is built.

I debated where to put the new filler neck; left, right, front, back… and decided that center at the highest point was probably the best idea. Oh, and away from the fuse panel just because.

I marked the location and used a hole saw to cut the hole. I had the shop vac blowing into the tank from the existing filler neck so that all of the metal shavings would be expelled and not end up in the tank. It worked remarkably well aside from covering my hair with tinsel.

More holes for the bolts and then it was pretty simple to assemble the neck. It calls for gasket sealer and recommend something high temp, fuel resistant and probably silicone so I abided. And that was that!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643669098.jpg
Neck plus collar, ready for a night out!

Next up was deleting the existing filler neck. I used an air-powered reciprocating saw to cut the neck off the tank. Again, with positive pressure and airflow into the tank all the metal bits stayed outside. The tank metal is pretty thin so I cut a hole out of some stock metal I had on hand and welded it in place. After making a pass with the sander it looks presentable. It’ll get some filler to smooth it out and then be covered in some Wurth rubberized coating to try and match the existing finish. Eventually the whole tank and filler will be painted in 2K satin black.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643668961.jpg
Wait, if I delete a thing, then add a thing, have I really done anything?

I also began the lovely process of sanding down all the filler. I know folks loathe this process and I understand that a whole car or multiple cars would be downright painful, but for the limited amount I have there’s a great satisfaction is seeing the final shape start to reveal itself. It’s also clear that this car ain’t perfect and probably took a little beating in the past. We are well past “3mm panel gaps” ha!

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643669187.jpg
On the can of filler it should read "easy on, hard as f*ck off"


Now gentlemen, a poll.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643669449.jpg

The inside of the trunk is pretty gross. Aside from being filthy dirty (which I can clean) the brown of the original car didn’t really cover all the primer and as such there are areas of tan brown all the way to rich chocolate brown. I hate it. It needs to be painted. The question is what color:

1. White to match the exterior: a cohesive look but maybe too clean for a car that will be used a lot.
   
2. Brown to match the original: an homage to the car’s original color and less work to cover the existing paint, but it’s brown…
   
3. Satin black: I mean if every girl’s gotta have a small black dress then every guy’s gotta have a black trunk…right? Satin black is universal for “don’t notice me too much” but it’s also a color that isn’t’ used elsewhere on the car…

I'm not answering your question about the trunk color until you drop that tank in for a quick mockup.
#inquiringminds

I generally don't negotiate with terrorists but since Chris is pretty much the only person who's reading and posting to this thread I'll have to make an exception.

There's plenty of clearance and I suppose if I ever wanted to go through the hood, I could just extend the neck.

Does it impede on storage space.. I guess but who cares. If I'm hauling the family somewhere I'll take another car.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643726610.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1643726610.jpg

Please release one unharmed hostage per photo. There's a fueled up jet waiting for you at Noblesville Airport.

Looks really good, Julian.
:D :D :D

Personally, I think the trunk should be body color. If you're building a 'nice car', make it nice.
If you're building a hotrod, then black.
The former/original color doesn't get to stay.
My two pennies.

I completely agree with you on the trunk color. The “nice car” ship sailed about 40 years ago when this car was repainted brown and then painted white.

Satin black it is… enter sandman.

Satin black....good choice.

Looking good. Following along...

Day 14

With my wife fully recovered from her Covid bout, I was granted Saturday morning to indulge myself working on the car.

Alarm off at 4, at work at 4:10, hands dirty at 4:12.

Today was one of those days where it appeared that almost nothing got done but in reality, a lot did. I have a sense that at this point in the project there will be many more days like today. And it all comes down to one word: sanding.

Now, I’m no greenhorn when it comes to sanding; at my work I’m often sanding 7-10 layers of gesso or bole on frames in preparation for gilding so I get it. That said, I’d rather be doing anything else.

The good news is that I finished sanding all the fiber filler and refining the complex compound curves of the front fenders. If we remember the light boxes I welded in were mostly a suggestion of a good product and my welding skills are just fine; the filler was really needed. I do feel conflicted about the imperfect nature of my car and often feel like I should just buy new fenders and a hood but that starts me thinking about a full sandblast and bare metal and that’s a larger project than I want right now… I’d love to have another crack at a bare metal build knowing what I know now. Good thing these cars are affordable...

Anyhow, after all that, I did a quick sweep up of the floor and applied the first coat of Rage lightweight body filler. This stuff is very thin, as a 30 min open time and the complete opposite of the fiber filler. Almost all of what you see on the car will likely end up on the floor as dust but so it goes. Obviously, I’m aiming for the thinnest layer of filler necessary and not a gram more but without it this project wouldn’t be possible. Case in point- on the fenders there are at least 3 layers of paint: the original brown, a layer of primer and a brown respray and then the white respray. Obviously the filler is necessary to bridge the difference between bare metal and all that paint.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644285435.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644285435.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644285435.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644285435.jpg

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644285435.jpg

I also started two smaller (haha, yeah right) projects to give me some easy wins during these long periods of never ending sanding. One relates to the engine and the other to the final look of the car... And that's all I'm going to say about that... for now.Fingers crossed they work!

You have no idea on how much I'm diggin this build, I'm rooting for ya, that's for sure. :)

Curb feelers are going to be fully sick on this car with Daytons and Vogues.
I like where this is heading.

I know you claim you don’t drink but this comment has me believing otherwise! Haha!

Dare to be different, Julian.
Everyone has Fuchs or BBS.
Some triple gold, knock-off Ds with Vogues or Royal Seals would tie in so nicely with your curb-feelers.

What I WANT is a set of Group 4 aluminum steelies in black, or maybe gold.

The problem is that I have a set of Fuchs I just refinished in RSR treatment and brand new Dunlops.

Once I get the car more finished I’ll photoshop some options and see.

lol all I hear is "a little bit of gold and a pager" playing in the background hahahaha

Julian, two sets of wheels are required for Midwest living. Gotta have sensible all-seasons for spring and fall, then pull out the stickyickys for summer and autoX.

I’d love to know how many on here get the reference.

Got it, stuck in my head now. :D

Oh geez, I can’t get it out of my head now.

You all know that I’m going to buy new wheels right, that even though I may profess angst, I have no choice. I never had a choice… about any of it… it was all destined… I’m just along for the ride!

When Well Enough Can't Be Left Alone; Backdate, EFI/ITB, AC, and more!
 

MIDWEEK UPDATE!



...and we all know that means Julian hasn't been doing his real work job which is oh so bad. But Porsche work is oh so good, so I guess it's a wash... Just don't tell my clients. (actually, most of them make a b-line for the car when they visit)



After my little issue with getting a good vacuum signal I started reading a lot about EFI/ITB systems and the vacuum signals on which they're dependent. I'm still not sure if I'll use speed density or MAP but before I can evaluate which is best for my application I need to have a good signal.



Lots of the writing I came across was about the importance of isolating the vacuum signal from noise or pulsing. The best way to do this seems to be a central manifold and uniform travel distance from each TB to said manifold. Apparently hoses of different lengths can create a pattern of pulsing that can distort the signal.



I looked at EFI/ITB systems from lots of companies who charge lots of money for their product and almost universally I kept seeing a second vacuum rail near the fuel rails. Not a single one used hoses from the TBs to the manifold. Hmm.



When I plumbed my system I didn't know this so I just ran hoses from each TB to the manifold. Those were the instructions and I followed them to a T. Today, instead of taking a lunch break I decided to rectify that.



I started with some untapped fuel rail and cut it down to 12 inches. I drilled and tapped three 1/8" NPS holes.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644458209.jpg



After that I tapped each end of the fuel rail for an AN-8 plug.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644458307.jpg



Then before installing those plugs I drilled and tapped one per rail again for a 1/8" NPT fitting.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644458376.jpg



I now had two air tight manifolds; one for the left bank, one for the right.



Needing to fit them to the TBs I drilled and tapped more holes for an M6 bolt and fabricated a few aluminum brackets that would allow me to utilize the fuel rail mounting points on the RHD fuel rails.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644458508.jpg



I figured two per rail was fine but if I need another I can add it as the fuel rails have three mounting points.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644458594.jpg



Once the fabrication was complete all that was left to do was say a prayer and install them and hope that my measuring was accurate.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644458659.jpg



theres enough space for the injector wiring plugs to fit in between each rail and they don't interfere with any other function or access.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644458713.jpg



I did have to plug 4 of the 6 holes in my main manifold. I may fabricate a new one at some point but I had the plugs handy and this was the path of least resistance.



http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644458785.jpg



I still have to run the short hoses from the TB barbs to the vacuum rail barbs but that's a piece of cake- I did actually have to eat lunch otherwise I would have completed that part too.



So not only does it look a LOT cleaner without all those hoses running everywhere, said hoses are now out of the way of the linkages and can't get tangled up or interfere with any moving part, but the distance from each TB to the first manifold, is identical and the distance from each of those manifolds to the main manifold is also identical which should do as much as possible to eliminate pulsing and create as even of a vacuum signal as possible.



I'm calling it a win. Not bad for a mid week lunch break.

Julian,

What an awesome solution! Clean and helps with accuracy. I may just need to look into that as well.

Where did you source the fuel rail stock?

Thanks

When Well Enough Can't Be Left Alone; Backdate, EFI/ITB, AC, and more!
 

Fuel rail from Jegs. I bought a 36” piece just in case I messed one up but it comes in various lengths.

Evil Energy block off AN-8 plugs from Amazon

1/8” NPT x 1/4” barbs (both straight and 90 degree) from Amazon- but make sure to get NPT so they seal correctly. NPT have a taper and seal by thread locking- NPS don’t and require an o-ring to seal.

1/8-27 & M6 & 3/4-16 Taps from McMaster Carr (or Amazon) Taps will be NPS of course which is fine so long as you get NPT fittings

You can get NPS fittings with o-rings but they’re much more expensive than the brass NPT fittings which are chump change. Think $1 per fitting vs $11!

False.
Fulltime stickies.
#noragrets

Searching my car, looking for the product

I’ll just sing the rest in my head instead of typing it out…

Funny to think how squeaky clean those guys were in real-life relative to today’s gangster rap and hip-hop culture, yet they helped establish the genre.

The real irony is that those dudes weren't terrible people, but were excellent rappers.
Now we've got terrible people who are terrible rappers. :D

Exactly. And Dr. Dre’s business success can’t be overlooked, either.

Let me know if it improves your vacuum signal. Using the independent hoses was/is a common way to port the ITB vacuum to the vacuum manifold....PMO, Jenvey, ATPower, RHD etc....all use, or have used this method, and it works well. I have installed and tuned lots of PMO, RHD, Triumph Speed Triple mods using the vacuum hose configuration, but also have installed/tuned the Rasant kits, both with PMO ITBs with hoses and with the new Rasant units with rail vacuum designs. I haven't seen a difference in the vacuum signal, while tuning......but I haven't done a back-to-back test either. Nice way to tidy up the vacuum plumbing.

regards,
al

Hey Julian,

Did you back date the heat or buy it that way? Also, will an A/C compressor fit with the backdated heater duct?

I understand you are going with electric A/C but curious if you had A/C before and just removed it.

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploa...1644544249.jpg

When Well Enough Can't Be Left Alone; Backdate, EFI/ITB, AC, and more!
 

I backdated the heat and picked up the circled (and other side) ducts from a Pelican here. I’m not sure if the AC compressor will fit with the heat backdate.

My car came with factory AC but didn’t work so I deleted the mess; all 75 pounds of it!!

I’ve yet to be cold in my blast furnace of a 911 and when it gets truly frigid, the roads here are covered in salt and the death of a thousand hopes and dreams for a short, mild winter.

Thanks, I have the factory A/C (York) and not even sure if it works, it's such an eye sore and want to remove it badly, but part of me thinks I'll regret it and want A/C. I've been told the factory A/C with York compressors are pretty much useless, plus this is not a car I'm going to be sitting in traffic in the middle of summer.

I have no AC in my car.
I still take it to work all summer. I find that rather than sitting in sweltering traffic, I will find alternate routes in/home. It makes the time in the car more of an event, even through typically mundane tasks like commuting.

food for thought

Thanks Chris, I think I'll go ahead and remove it but leave the long lines in place in case I decide to install the Griffiths A/C kit. I work from home so I can really pick and chose when I want to take the car any where. BTW, I follow you on IG and love the Tundra!

Maybe you hardcore young bucks can live without A/C but this old fart finds it one of the very things that makes my 82 SC coupe such a versatile car in all seasons, including for its cabin air drying properties when driving in the rain and the obvious one of it keeping the cabin really pleasant on muggy summer days. I was fortunate in that the original owner of my car had spent on some Griffiths upgrades; a Sanden rotary compressor isn’t the eyesore that the old piston units were.

Best to all, John