LED Turn Signal Behavior

[thefaculty]

Hi everyone

I know there are a bunch of threads out there about this. I have read them all and none cover the issues I am having with my LED turn signal lights from CarMagic so I am hoping someone here might be able to help.

I have installed Rennline LED headlights with integrated turn signals and a full set of Engleberts LEDs (CarMargic) Before I go further Englebert has been extremely generous with his time although was not able to offer any solution as yet. All LEDs work fine apart from his front turn signals. Symptoms are:

• When stock bulbs are in front turn signals everything works properly.
• When LED bulbs are added the following happens:
• With running lights off things appear to be normal.
• As soon as running lights are turned on the indicators light up full on the turn signals and the instrument panel.
• When turning left or right indicators on the corresponding LEDs do flash but the Rennline lights stay bright orange without flashing as they should

I got a little fed-up and ordered my own LEDs from Amazon knowing I can return them if they don't work. As soon as I swapped the CarMagic LEDs for the Amazon LEDs I solved the running light problem. The running lights now work as they should in all settings. However, I now have a new problem:

• With stock bulbs in the front turn signals everything again works properly.
• When Amazon LED bulbs are added the running lights work properly but the following happens:
• With running lights off and turn signal on the Rennline lighst work peoprly but the side markers now flash.
• With running lights on the side markers no longer flash but the Rennline headlights turn solid orange without flashing
• Same issue when headlights are on.

This affects both driver and passenger sides equally. Here is a video which shows what I mean:



Does anyone know what could be causing this?
Do I need a resistor somewhere for the turn signal lights?
Could it be a bad ground? If so how do I test for this? I have a multimeter but not sure how to use it to know if I have a bad ground on the turn signal lights.
If I find a bad ground how do I fix this?

If SPOKESWORKS is out there I am using the CarMagic EP26 relay. I believe yours is different by grounding the C2 pin? Would this fix my issue or is that solely related to the instrument LEDs which on my car are now working fine with the Amazon LED bulbs.

Thanks so much everyone!!

[76FJ55]

I haven't worked my way through all this yet but thought I'd ask, Do headlights on VS running lights on have any effect?

[thefaculty]

Thanks for looking at this!!! No - there is no difference between running lights on and headlights on. Symptoms remain the same in both states with the exception that headlights are on.

[7783911]

the leds draw less..do you have a correct relay?

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by 7783911

the leds draw less..do you have a correct relay?

Yes. I’m running a new EP36 provided by CarMagic.

[76FJ55]

I'm assuming the LED turn indicator have 2 wires separate from the headlight wiring?

are you tying the ground into the existing harness going to the turn/gunning lights in the bumper? my first thought is that you accidentally connected the the LED turn between the turn signal supply and the side marker supply lines.

I would try running the led turn light ground directly to the chassis so that only the LED Turn supply is connected to the original harness. this may help you isolate the problem.

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by 76FJ55

I'm assuming the LED turn indicator have 2 wires separate from the headlight wiring?

are you tying the ground into the existing harness going to the turn/gunning lights in the bumper? my first thought is that you accidentally connected the the LED turn between the turn signal supply and the side marker supply lines.

I would try running the led turn light ground directly to the chassis so that only the LED Turn supply is connected to the original harness. this may help you isolate the problem.

No. I haven't changed any wiring at all. Everything is stock I have only swapped out stock bulbs for LED. When stock bulbs are in place everything works as it should. When LEDs are in place I am getting the errors I mentioned above. No wiring has changed at all.

[76FJ55]

Yes, I'm referring to the LED turn indicators in the headlight assembly. Those are the ones I'm inquiring about the ground wire connection on. I would suggest running the ground from the headlight turn signals as dedicated grounds. I have the Rennline headlights but without the integrated turn signals. how many wires do the Rennline with turn signal, have and does the turn (orange) also double as a running (white) light when the running lights are on but headlights off?

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by 76FJ55

Yes, I'm referring to the LED turn indicators in the headlight assembly. Those are the ones I'm inquiring about the ground wire connection on. I would suggest running the ground from the headlight turn signals as dedicated grounds. I have the Rennline headlights but without the integrated turn signals. how many wires do the Rennline with turn signal, have and does the turn (orange) also double as a running (white) light when the running lights are on but headlights off?

Ahh - sorry. I see what you mean.
The integrated turn signal lights in the Rennline lights are an LED halo module that add to their light housing. And yes they double as running lights (white) and turn orange and flash as turn signals when turning L/R. From that LED module there are 3 wires:

1. Black wire that connects from the LED module to the vehicle ground wire. To be clear this ground wire currently runs from the LED module directly to the grounding screw inside the headlight bucket which I think is what you meant originally. If this sounds correct then I think I'm already doing as you suggested but thanks for suggesting this because I wouldn't have thought of it I know next to nothing about electrics.
2. White wire that connects to the parking light wire in the headlight bucket.
3. Orange wire that connects to the turn signal wire.

Perhaps I am wrong but as this all works perfectly well with a stock bulb in the front indicator(s) I am tempted not to mess with this wiring.

I am wondering if I need to add resistors to the turn signal wiring? Would this mean that the LED bulbs would then appear to carry the same load as a stock bulb and therefore solve the issue I am having?

[76FJ55]

do you have LEDs in all the rest of the locations F/R turn and marker? how about instrument cluster?

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by 76FJ55

do you have LEDs in all the rest of the locations F/R turn and marker? how about instrument cluster?

Yes LEDs are installed in every light front and rear. Also in instrument cluster. I rewired the tach per CarMagics instructions and used the EP36 relay he provided and it all works great now. The LED instrument turn signals now work as they should. All rear lights work properly. The only issue is these front turn signals.

[76FJ55]

Dual filament or single filament bulb that you are installing in the turn signal location?

[thefaculty]

Originally Posted by 76FJ55

Dual filament or single filament bulb that you are installing in the turn signal location?

I'm assuming you mean when it's a stock bulb - it's a dual filament that I am replacing with the 1157 LED equivalent.

[76FJ55]

yes, just making sure you have the correct style bulb going in with the 2 contacts on the base as a single contact on the base would short the running light to the turn signal supply, which would cause the issues you are seeing. it may be remedial but can you check to make sure the contacts on the base of the LED aren't shorting between the 2 terminals in the housing?

[thefaculty]

Yes - 2 contacts on the LEDs, exact same positioning when compared to stock filament bulb and definitely no shorting going on. Terminals are clean, Ground contacts all seem clean and the fact that both left and right turn signals are affected identically leads me to think that it is likely not a housing or contact issue.

[76FJ55]

when you change from the factory incandescent bulb in the fron turn signal does it change the behavior of the rear lighting?

[thefaculty]

No. Rear lighting functions perfectly both with stock filament bulbs and when changed to 1157 LED

[spoke]

Originally Posted by thefaculty

Perhaps I am wrong but as this all works perfectly well with a stock bulb in the front indicator(s) I am tempted not to mess with this wiring.

I am wondering if I need to add resistors to the turn signal wiring? Would this mean that the LED bulbs would then appear to carry the same load as a stock bulb and therefore solve the issue I am having?

If you have wiring issues you will see them with LED lights. The OEM bulbs may mask an issue with the wiring that seems to pop up with LEDs. I would suggest disconnecting the halo turnsignals for now to see if that makes a difference. Simplify the circuit before trying to debug everything at once.

Don't add the ballast resistors as you would just be masking some type of wiring issue.

The turnsignal circuit and running light circuit are separate except in one place: The turnsignal/running light bases which should be ground. If the ground is not there one filament may get powered through the other filament.

With the OEM bulb in place, can you tell if just the high power filament flashing or do both filaments flash?