stuck rear torsion bars

[Tspringer]

I finally got both of the rear spring plates off using a 5 ton gear puller. Now the only parts left attached are the steel bananna arms (cant come off until I get the engine and trans out) and the rear torsion bars.

The torsion bars are the original items. They have been in position for 34 years. They apparently really like that position. They wont budge.

I tried grabbing them and wiggling alot and yanking till I thought a hernia was imminent. Of coarse this did nothing.

I figured perhaps I could push one through and use its end to bang the other out. So I beat the daylights out of them both in turn trying to get one to push through. I used a 5lb sledge hammer and one of the old front torsion bars as an extension. I whacked the crap out of them. No movement. They laugh at such treatment.

I have soaked them with PB Blaster. Beat on them again. Nada. I then re-installed the spring plate retaining plate and attempted to use the gear puller to push one through. I figured the constant pressure would work..... nope. The bar would deflect up or down making it tough to get constant pressure.... but it would not budge from its position.

Im getting pretty dang desperate. Its starting to look as if full torsion tube replacement will be required. Im to the point of looking at how the entire tube can be cut out when the engine/trans is removed. It seems getting a new tube properly welded into place will require a complex body jig.

Could stuck torsion bars spell the need for an entire new chassis?

Im really at a loss. Having spent many hours contemplating how these may be removed and searching the archives, Ive come up with no ideas I have not exhausted.

Anyone got a brainstorm?


Terry

[rob justice]

If i can remember - I couldn't push the torsion bar through against the other - when you fit the torsion bar - it bottoms out in the torsion bar tube and keeps the two of them apart.
I had the same bother but managed to get one of the bars out by clamping two pairs of mole grips side by side on whats visible of the bar sticking out of the tube and wacking the grips with a hammer quite a few times.
One of the bars came out this way allowing me to use length of pipe with a smaller o/d than the torsion bar - run it through where the removed bar sat and popped the other bar out - again with the help of a hammer!
Good luck - just watch what you do with that 5lb hammer - I used a 3lb one and that was all it took

[Zeke]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here since I am only at the same point you are. I assume you are replacing the bars with new ones. Beating on them can't do the splines any good. Do you have a slide hammer or can you fashion one up? I would go thru the body hole and wrap a chain around the end of the bar, attach it to the slide hammer and jerk the bars outward. If a second person has a big set of pliers on the bar twisting back and forth as you yank, it might help.


That's the best brainstorm I can come up with.

[Tspringer]

I tried the vise grips. I used two of them close together. I leveraged a pry bar against them and beat on them with a hammer. Neither effort yielded any result.

Ill go buy some cable and chain and try to rig some sort of slide hammer.

I may also try welding a long bolt to the end of the torsion bar, then rigging three long rods through the body hole against the out torsion tube. Then run the three rods through a center fitting so they can leverage against the bolt/torsion bar. sort of a reverse gear puller tripod sort of thingy. Sucks because it will take a good part of a day just to attempt to construct this thing.

Terry

[aigel]

I think you need impact more than leverage. Either weld an eye bolt or tap the bar and screw an eye bolt to it. That should give you plenty of ideas to try. Slide hammer or air hammer?

I am pretty sure that the bars do not slip through, but don't quote me on that.

George

[Elombard]

Dont hate me; I took one side out today..... like butter :-)) I dont think your chassis is a right off, its just stuck! Good luck

[dickster]

terry

my first rear came out easily,so left me with the option of popping a long bar through the whole to get the other one if needed.

the 2nd was stuck but 15 mins of wriggling freed it. i just grabbed the end of the bar with a rag in my hand (while lying on my back) and wriggled up and down - occasionally trying to pull.

it doesnt tend to corrode in there, the grease goes solid and holds the bar - movement will free it eventually.

your best bet would be the slide hammer i would have thought......it should damage the splines that way.

good luck.

[Tspringer]

I rigged a cable around the bar and secured it with a metal cable tie fitting. Then I ran the cable through the hole in the body and secured it to a huge steel bar. Then I beat the crap out of the bar with a 5lb sledge.... the best "slide hammer" setup I have come up with. Nada. Not budging a bit.

Next I am going to use some cable to secure the car in place by fixing it to the house foundation. Then I am going to attach the cable that is attached to the torsion bar end to my come-a-long cable and to a tree.. Then I am either going to jack that POS torsion bar out of the car.... or I will rip the torsion tube from the car....or I will tear my house down.... or the cable will break.

Im really hoping for option 1, but fearing option 4. If I get option 2 Ill set the whole dang thing on fire and forget about it. If I get option 3..... my wife is going to be really pissed!

Im starting to really dislike this car.

Terry

[dickster]

ok, at this point it is best to walk away, have a few (more) beers, and take stock.

go back in a few days or weeks.

[Tspringer]

Ok. Its over. The torsion bars WILL NOT come out of this torsion tube.

I moved the car out into the middle of my driveway. I wrapped a chain around the torsion bar and secured it. Then I ran the chain through the body hole and attached it to my comealong. I hooked the comealong to my trucks frame. I then attached a chain to the anti roll bar mount on the other side of the car and ran that chain to the frame of my wifes SUV. Thus, the car was tightly chained on both sides, sitting on jack stands and with the floor jack under the engine/trans as a safety.

Next I began to jack on the torsion bar with the comealong. I jacked the crap out of it. I tried rocking the car while the torsion bar was under tension. I jacked on that bar until several thousand pounds of pressure were being applied and I was worried the damn chain would break. Im actually shocked it didnt rip the torsion tube fitting out.

The torsion bar did not budge a single mm.

So, something is clearly really wrong with the torsion tube fitting inside the tube where the torsion bar mounts. It has to be really messed up, there is not other explanation for why the bars will not come out.

Thus.... on to a new thread: How / where to have the entire rear torsion tube replaced?


Terry

[aigel]

Terry:

Have you opened the big 12mm torsion bar retaining bolt that holds it in the center of the tube???

Just kidding.

I think you need more impact. Did you try to beat the bar while you had it under tension?

Good Luck and be careful!

George

[jyl]

This is weird. [b]Why[\b] do you think the t-bar is stuck? Do you have rust inside the t-bar tube? Can you apply heat to the outside of the t-bar where the t-bar splines are presumably frozen (don't start a fire! I haven't thought this through . . .) Or do you think there is a mechanical reason?

I guess you should start reading the threads on coilover conversions . . . no, don't give up.

[Grady Clay]

EVERYONE,
No one has answered the question “can you drive the torsion bars though from one side to the other side” or is there something preventing that? If so, I would apply a large soft? hammer to one side until I got it (them) to move.

In any case, have you applied solvents to the inboard splines? You can do this by snaking a small tube alongside the torsion bar and soak the splines.

Who has an answer if a big dull “thud” is better than a “sharp” steel strike is more effective?

Terry,
Yes, you are attempting all the right things. Keep up the side-to-side and rotational (both directions) wiggling, that is what will eventually get them loose. Patients pays off.

Once you have them out, you don’t want to ever repeat this situation. The first issue is how to clean the center splines. Who has experience here?

Best,
Grady

[Tspringer]

I have no idea exactly why they are so stuck. I am assuming the splined fitting at the base of the tube has a bottom so they bars cannot just be pushed through.

I have tried bashing on them, yanking them, twisting them, soaking them in PB blaster..... something inside that tube has to be broken or twisted or something. I cannot see any way simply rusted splines would withstand thousands of pounds of steady pressure as applied by the comealong. I put so much torque on it that it was scaring me to do any more..... didnt budge a single mm.

George.... I swear I was beginning to think there must be a bolt or something holding them in. Its really baffling. Makes no sense at all.

My plan as of now is to replace the entire torsion tube.


Terry

[Zeke]

I just went out to a car that I have apart. The spline at each torsion bar end in the center of the tube is about an inch in depth. The center APPEARS to be all the way thru, meaning you could push or pull. My torsion bar is stuck to the arm and doesn't want to separate, so it came out of the center tube fairly easily. There was no rust in there either.

To get something like this out, constant pressure is not necessarily going to do it. The chain I suggested was for jerking, not a constant pull from a comealong. If your pulling strength is a little off center, as it would be unless you welded the eye bolt on the end as someone suggested, then you are actually binding the bar.

You need to put some light pulling pressure on it and then move it up and down and side to side. Then knock it back in. Then pull on it some more. Your car would have had to be on the bottom of the lake for years for this thing not to work free. That's the key word here; work it free.

[Rot 911]

Terry, I've been following your attempts and can feel your frustration all the way over here in Missouri. The only thing that can be holding those torsion bars in is rust and rock hard grease. I'm not sure tons of steady pulling pressure is going to remove those bars. Not to mention if they all at once break loose you might have a missle on your hands. Have you tried to taking a 5 pound hammer and trying to hammer them in before trying to pull them out? What would work even better is a pnuematic hammer with a punch bit on it. Something to try and break the rust/solids loose. I would also do what someone suggested on your other thread, heat the end up cherry red and let the heat travel down the bar. If that still doesn't work, try your pulling methods again, but when you have significant pulling pressure on the bar try smacking that sucker hard a number of times with your 5 pound BFH!

[Tspringer]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm interesting.

I was under the impression that it was not possible to push a bar through its inner fitting, shove the bar on the other side out of ITS inner fitting and have the first bar thus take the place of the other..... especially if the splines dont line up side to side. Seems that attempting to hammer the bar through would either work.... or really tear things up.

Perhaps that is the problem. You see... I did try to hammer it through. Using an old E-type Jag torsion bar rested against the t-bar end, I beat the daylights out of it with a 5lb sledge. I tried both the the t-bars. I never got either of them to budge at all.

Its true that the chain wrapped around the t-bar was forcing the pulling pressure to be applied at a slight angle and this would cause some binding. Still, I thought that amount of binding would be easily overcome by the immense pressure. When under pressure, I did wiggle the car a good bit by shaking it. I was afraid to smack the bar itself with the hammer (afraid of missile syndrome!).

Its going to take time to locate were to get a torsion tube and find a shop..... so Im sure Ill keep trying to yank them out. I'll try welding a bolt to the end of the t-bar and then bolting an eye to it so I can yank from the center.

Im thinking of this..... I'll weld on the eye bolt. Then Ill secure the car on jack stands with a floor jack under it. Then Ill chain down one side (attack chain to my truck and pull tight). Then Ill attach the long chain to the eye bolt and the other end to the SUV frame. Then Ill drop the clutch with lots of slack in the chain.... and WHANG the crap out of it. I figure it will either bust it loose.... or really tear something up good. Either way I may get some satisfaction.

Terry


PS I do REALLY appreciate the ideas and help!

[Rot 911]

Terry, you can't push the bar through its inner fitting. You may have mushroomed the inner end by trying to force it, but doubtful. Your pulling with the truck idea scares me, not that I wouldn't try it myself if all of this was happening to me. I just hate to see you destroy your car in the process.

[Pat S]

You may want to try a real slide hammer. Most Autoparts stores have loaners. Get the largest you can then find a way to keep it on the end of the bar. If you slide it a few dozen times it may break some of the rust loose. If it doesn't your not out any $$.
I know, you have tried methods with far more pressure, but the impact in the outward direction may help some.

Pat

[dickster]

they dont like being pulled "straight out". the wriggling method was best for me. have you tried heat? that should melt any solid grease pretty quickly.