Handling seems squirrelly, what to look for?

[eflight]

I have a 84 911 Targa, about 55K miles on it. Got it a few months ago.

When I drive it a little spirited it doesn't feel planted. its a bit squirrelly. Seems to lean in the corners a good bit.

It has brand new tires and alignment. Air pressure to spec.

I've taken a look at all the bushings on the torsion bars and they look fine.

I do the push up and down on the bumpers and they seem ok, no excessive bouncing. though one side squeaks a bit.

I did notice there appears to be a bunch of oil residue in each of the fender wells.

If I jack up one side of the car and then put it back down, that side stays high after removing the jack.

Is it time for new shocks or is there something else that needs to be looked into first?

Thanks

[356911930]

What tires did you buy and can you post the alignment printout?

Rahl

[eflight]

Originally Posted by 356911930

What tires did you buy and can you post the alignment printout?

Rahl

Tires are Continental Extreme Contact DWS06
They did not give me a printout

[dw1]

Replacing the shocks sound like the obvious first step. It sounds like one shock is binding and perhaps bent.

While you are at it, check the rear sway bar mounts - be sure to check both sides. A common problem is for the welded connection between the mounts and the chassis to crack. A good shop can easily reweld them. This problem can definitely cause the handling issue and body roll you describe.

You wrote that you checked the sway bar bushings, but the bushings can look good even if the mount welds are cracked - the cracks can be camouflaged with road grime and/or undercoating (you can guess how I know this...).

[darrin]

if the squeak you're hearing comes from the rear end, a broken rear sway bar mount can cause that too.

When you say "air pressure to spec," what air pressures are. you running? Also, how many miles on the new tires since you had them put on? usually takes at least 500 miles for the tires' mold compound to wear off (which can be slippery/hamper performance too).

[David Inc.]

If you can request a printout of the alignment (maybe they record them, I don't know?) I would. I once had a shop give me a significant amount of rear toe-out because they said it would handle better. So just because it was aligned doesn't mean it was aligned properly.

[walt]

Jack up the front of the car and rock each tire side to side and top to bottom. Any play could either be ball joints, tie rods or a wheel bearing. Top to bottom is typically a ball joint issue. Both directions a wheel bearing.

[eflight]

I just checked the sway bar mounts. I did not see any evidence of cracking.

Not sure if the bushings need to be replaced or not. To my eyes they look ok.

I have asked the shop if they have a printout.

Tires have 570 miles since the tire change. 28/35 for pressures

[eflight]

So I took the advice here, thanks all, and called the shop to see if I could get a print out. Turns out it was in the computer memory so they were able to send it to me. Plus one for this shop.

I talked a bit with the tech that did the alignment. He said the rear was close but a bit out of speck still. They ran out of adjustments to get it to the green, but it was so close that he did not think it was worth additional time/money to get it to the green since that would mean taking things apart and enlarging holes and stuff.

They told me if I was still not happy to bring it back and they could take another stab at it. But I'm not convinced the alignment is the issue jus yet.

[walt]

You say brand new tires. How many miles, new tires may take a few hundred miles to seat properly.

[eflight]

Originally Posted by walt

You say brand new tires. How many miles, new tires may take a few hundred miles to seat properly.

Tires have 570 miles since the tire change.

[Avanti]

Did they give an explanation as to why the L/R toe setting couldn't be brought closer to spec? I'm OCD when it comes to rear toe and thrust angle. The closest to zero thrust angle you can get is best.

+1 on tires breaking in - but rear toe/thrust angle settings that are too far off I've found to cause not the best tracking at higher speeds. Does it pull to one direction when you let go of the steering wheel?

[David Inc.]

Kind of looks like they don't know how to deal with the rear alignment.

[RobFrost]

Push each corner down and see how many times it bounces. It should come up and then return to its original without bouncing. If it bounces, this will confirm the shock absorbers as suggested by the poor turn in and misting of oil.

If not the shocks then suspension alignment, particularly a little bit of toe-in and a thicker ARB will sharpen turn-in.

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[eflight]

No real bounce at all on the corners when I push it down.

[snbush67]

Originally Posted by eflight

I have a 84 911 Targa, about 55K miles on it. Got it a few months ago.

When I drive it a little spirited it doesn't feel planted. its a bit squirrelly. Seems to lean in the corners a good bit.

It has brand new tires and alignment. Air pressure to spec.

I've taken a look at all the bushings on the torsion bars and they look fine.

I do the push up and down on the bumpers and they seem ok, no excessive bouncing. though one side squeaks a bit.

I did notice there appears to be a bunch of oil residue in each of the fender wells.

If I jack up one side of the car and then put it back down, that side stays high after removing the jack.

Is it time for new shocks or is there something else that needs to be looked into first?

Thanks

Define a bit squirrelly? Understeer, oversteer, wandering, pulling, wobbly?

Do you have turbo tie rods? How responsive is the steering? Does the steering wheel center quickly?

Describe the car leaning into the corners. weight transfer and leaning is what’s keeping the tire in contact with the road (grip).

Also, every time you lower the car you have to drive the car or roll the car and work the suspension until it settles, and if your going to use the cars fender to determine ride height then you must be on a perfectly level surface.

[RobFrost]

Originally Posted by eflight

No real bounce at all on the corners when I push it down.

Then it's probably wheel alignment. There's a specialist in 911 suspension alignment here in the UK. If you have similar near you, they would tell you within a few mins driving the car what the issue is.

I know for better turn in they often look for a little bit of toe-in, because it runs the front wheels already in a little bit of inwards tension, so as soon as you turn there's no slack in the outside wheel before it starts rotating the car.

The other improvement would be a thicker anti roll bar which will reduce the degree to which the car leans into the turn.

Other causes less easy to solve could be a weak body, e.g. rusted kidney bowls, sills, floor, depending upon the car. In this case the car is twisting from front to back.

That assumes all the bushes and suspension joints etc. are in good condition. If those are worn get them replaced.

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[Zeke]

Originally Posted by eflight

I have a 84 911 Targa, about 55K miles on it. Got it a few months ago.

When I drive it a little spirited it doesn't feel planted. its a bit squirrelly. Seems to lean in the corners a good bit.

It has brand new tires and alignment. Air pressure to spec.

I've taken a look at all the bushings on the torsion bars and they look fine.

I do the push up and down on the bumpers and they seem ok, no excessive bouncing. though one side squeaks a bit.

I did notice there appears to be a bunch of oil residue in each of the fender wells.

If I jack up one side of the car and then put it back down, that side stays high after removing the jack.

Is it time for new shocks or is there something else that needs to be looked into first?

Thanks

That is normal. I'd continue checking the sway bar — links, etc. Those bushings look sad but they were probably there like that before.

I once put set of Dunlops on an ealy car and they handled badly. So tires can be the problem. 35 lbs. rear cold sounds high.

[AlKidd]

Did they check the ride height in the front and back to make sure both sides were the same? My car was squirelly until I had an alignment shop get the ride height right and then do an alignment.

[eflight]

Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions. My plan had been to take it for a series of drives and try to document it the best I could, But summer traffic and other life things have prevented me from doing that just yet. Hopefully I can get that done in the next few weeks. I have found a Porsche shop near me, so I will get in contact with them to see if they can give it a check up.