question about 3.2 engines.

[bickyd]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

My build: 3.4, 10:1 w/ modern design JE pistons, turbo oil pump (extra scavenge stage) 3.8 supercup cams, stock heads / valve size with port cleanup, plastic varioram intake where the disa valve is controlled by stand alone rpm trigger box. Programmable MAF on top of OE DME that was double-speeded and custom chipped by Steve Wong. B&B headers / exhaust. This setup is amazing and should be making @305hp at the crank. It pulls smoothly and very strong all the way to 6900. The cams have almost .500 lift with reasonable duration making for great, broad torque curve and real pull from 4500 to top end.

I wanted a build that would make a really good street motor without having to wring it out to get the power out of it. I've worked on an driven a fair amount of these cars and this combination is fantastic. It's not exotic, but the varioram is the key plus using a modern programmable MAF or speed density system. To go past this power level gets real expensive in a hurry. My .02

This was my build, Michael Mount ( Michael Mount Racing) did the machine work and final assembly

My DME is a 24 pin so I need to upgrade that as a start. I do not know what double speeded means for the DME. 305 hp is probably the most one could deal with with the present braking system, suspension, and transmission. I have been gathering parts and have all the bushings for the suspension, some synchros, brake lines. i have done the clutch, turbo tie rods. rotors , pads, calipers, shift and steering bushings and a new fan as mine was cracking. i have the notorious growl at low speed in my transmission and a fellow pelican has sent me the g50-01 manual in digital form and that will be this winters project. I had it out already once and cleaned it very well. the oil was clear so it has been changed recently. your recipe is very tempting. thank you for elaborating.

[bickyd]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

Plus one on the MAF. I use a custom MAF with a split second controller. Yes its old school but it actually does the job fairly well and allows for some on the fly adjustments.

If you decide to go turbo, I would recommend a bolt on .5 bar (7PSI boost) to start, so you can keep your stock 9.3:1 compression. (If its US spec 3.2) I'm betting you'll be happy with this and you can always grow into more. However if you have the euro spec version, I'd probably drop the compression a bit and run more boost. (Yes its a slippery slope).

New Cams, (lots of great suggestions here) replace those lower Divilar head studs with steel, headers with a good muffler (RarelyL8) MAF, (ditching the barn door is a must) For management I use a Protomotive Stage 1 chip with a BEGI rising rate fuel pressure regulator, but there are many other solutions. Decent size intercooler, and you'll need to address scavenge pump. I didn't have much luck with the drain method so I use a Turbowerks electric pump which works flawlessly.

Spooled up in 2nd or 3rd gear, I've put many Teslas to shame with this setup.

One of these days I'll get around to upgrading to a nice stand alone ecu though.

This is getting to be a tough decision. your car is beautiful. what kind of turbo are you running? I really need a ducktail.

[asphaltgambler]

The early DME's to @"85 was 2K board processing speed. There is a jumper on the board where you can double that to 4K. The late 88 to early 89' went to 8k but the chip pins are different than the earlier ones. The difference is how quickly the engine management adjusts to a modified engine.IE: Quicker revs, flicking throttle. My experience is the 915 trans will handle more HP/TQ than 300+, but not a lot more. The rest of the car will absolutely handle more as it is so well balanced

[bickyd]

Originally Posted by asphaltgambler

The early DME's to @"85 was 2K board processing speed. There is a jumper on the board where you can double that to 4K. The late 88 to early 89' went to 8k but the chip pins are different than the earlier ones. The difference is how quickly the engine management adjusts to a modified engine.IE: Quicker revs, flicking throttle. My experience is the 915 trans will handle more HP/TQ than 300+, but not a lot more. The rest of the car will absolutely handle more as it is so well balanced

I did not know that. Thank you.

[Rodsrsr]

Thanks! @ Bickyd. I'm running a Precision SC6162 that I purchased from a fellow Pelican back in 2011. It's still going strong!

[spuggy]

Originally Posted by bickyd

I did not know that. Thank you.

Cough. Probably because it's not correct.

From iscmhitz's post Permalink in this thread DME Update Questions:

There are different two 24-pin EPROMs out there and not all are 2k. The very first rendition of the 3.2 Motronic used a 2716 with 2kx8 capacity. The base code is located in the CPU and the EPROM contains personalization (maps, calibration, high-level routines)

At some point with the EPROM development moving forward the 27C32 with 4kx8 space and still 24 pins was used by Bosch. The code initially didn't make use of the addition space and two identical 2k-sized copies resided in the 4k EPROM. The base code was still in the CPU. Later versions used the full 4k of the EPROM.

Then once again the the 27C32 EPROM was replaced by the 27C64 EPROM with 8kx8 space and 28 pins. Now the entire code now resides in the EPROM and the internal code of the CPU is disabled.

The jumpers account for the different 24-pin versions of the EPROM. Pin 21 needs to be Vcc for the 2716 to function properly and A11 for the 27C32 IF it is a real 4k later version. The other important thing to keep in mind is that most modern chips now come in a much larger EPROM (27C512) and there should be 8 identical copies inside so the jumpering doesn't matter. The 27C512 is the only EPROM currently still in production. If the chip is in any other EPROM it is a "pull" that has been erased. In other words its an old device that has been sourced somewhere on the used market.

(you can largely ignore Loren/Dave, as usual. Yes, he's technically correct - but contributing little, as he often does).

This is not processing speed, it's setting the capacity of the chip that stores the maps and the Motronic firmware.

Ditch the bloody Motronics already. It's freaking 80's tech - 40 years old. Less processing than your microwave or your toaster, much less your phone. It can't deal with anything "fancy" - much less anything that didn't exist in the 80's. It's like trying to hang on to CIS - why would you do that?

And you need a piggy-back emulator to read/program a Motronic in real time (yes, they exist - a guy here builds them) - which almost any ECU built in the last 20 years or so just gives you out of the box. But this still doesn't let you drive boost control, variable cam timing, exhaust valves etc - or even datalogging.

[Rodsrsr]

I was looking at these once. https://www.vems.com/
Seems to be mostly plug and play. There's a Pelican "Raceboy" who was working with this company at one time. Not sure if he's still around, but he was quite knowledgeable.

[bickyd]

Originally Posted by spuggy

Cough. Probably because it's not correct.

From iscmhitz's post Permalink in this thread DME Update Questions:



(you can largely ignore Loren/Dave, as usual. Yes, he's technically correct - but contributing little, as he often does).

This is not processing speed, it's setting the capacity of the chip that stores the maps and the Motronic firmware.

Ditch the bloody Motronics already. It's freaking 80's tech - 40 years old. Less processing than your microwave or your toaster, much less your phone. It can't deal with anything "fancy" - much less anything that didn't exist in the 80's. It's like trying to hang on to CIS - why would you do that?

And you need a piggy-back emulator to read/program a Motronic in real time (yes, they exist - a guy here builds them) - which almost any ECU built in the last 20 years or so just gives you out of the box. But this still doesn't let you drive boost control, variable cam timing, exhaust valves etc - or even datalogging.

I am aware of the Loren wars and have gone down that rabbit hole. I am sure there was some merit on both sides but it seems like it is productive as discussing the difference between a brace and bit opposed to a power drill. I think I would really appreciate the experience of a stand alone device such as racerboys vems , megasquirt or others. I have set up datalogging in industrial electric applications before. Regardless, I agree in the sense that upping the power in these engines would definitely benefit from a more modern adjustable control. It is common sense to me. thanks for the clarity.

[bickyd]

Originally Posted by Rodsrsr

I was looking at these once. https://www.vems.com/
Seems to be mostly plug and play. There's a Pelican "Raceboy" who was working with this company at one time. Not sure if he's still around, but he was quite knowledgeable.

I am familiar with his offerings and am curious as well if he is still in business. I was always curious why his product was not more successful. variable engine management system. seemed like a winner to me.