Suspension questions.....

[sean m]

Here's the situation....first off.....I know less than zero about the suspension on this car. Been reading a lot on the forum.

The symptoms.....hit the smallest bump in the road and feels like your teeth will fall out. Even the little reflector things in the middle of the road make the CD player skip!

Particulars.....car is a 77 911S, has 140,000 miles on the clock. Family friend had the car for the first 5 years, my dad for 23 years, and me the last 9. Checked with my dad and he said he never had any work done on the suspension.


Questions......
1. In reading posts on the forum, can old (or bad) struts do this?
2. I'm sure A arm bushings need to be replaced as well....if worn, can they cause this?
3. Tires are also old and need replacing.....will that help as well?

Thanks for any help

[mreid]

That is one sign of torsion bars without damping, so shocks may be in order.

[pete3799]

All three can cause your problem.
I'd start with some new tires.

[OffCamber00]

Yeah, you definitely need a refresh.

Tires, shocks/strut inserts, bushings

Will transform the car and make it WAY more fun to drive.

[Flojo]

bushings bushings bushings
they are the "weakest" parts of the supension, as they just wear out in time.
but look over all the rest too.
well, what do you expect of 77 stock parts to last?

and I'd change the tranny/engine mounts too, while you're in it.

[Josh D]

New tires will make the biggest difference initially. On these cars, new tires on an old suspension will still deliver decent ride and handling. Old, hard tires, even on a fresh suspension, suck balls.

With the age and mileage of your car, start with tires, shocks and struts but plan for bushing in the not to distant future. Unless of course there is knock or other suspension noises. That usually indicates excessive clearance in the bushings or metal to metal contact.

[david.avrahami@]

All of the above...when getting inserts or new shocks in the front make sure you replace all bushings as well..

[jamesjedi]

It would be worth asking previous owners if the torsion bars have been changed. Bigger = potentially more harsh.

[redridge]

+1 on bushings, it really takes the slop out of the suspension. New shocks, and tires as well....

[Charles Freeborn]

Yes, yes and yes.
Read the thread linked below in my signature and you'll get an idea of what's up with the front.
-C

[Tidybuoy]

This picture of my car is how I found out my Koni shocks were bad. No, my car cannot pull a wheelie (even though it looks cool). What is actually happening is the shock is not rebounding fast enough & the suspension is binding. Once I replaced my front struts, it all smoothed out. I also replaced all the rubber bushings with Elephant Racing rubber bushings - the car rides like new again.



Old, Wornout, Front Bushings:

[82 SC]

I had a blown front shock that when i hit any bump it would sound like a bam!! every time. I jacked up the front of the car and compared the shocks. I could not pull up the tire with the good shock but the bad one I could easily move the tire up and down. It looked like my shocks were never replaced on my 82. I could not afford 2 new shocks for now so I got a used one from the used parts forum and now I am on the road again.

[will hung]

When I first got it, I thought my car had upgraded torsion bars with how stiff the suspension felt when driving it. When I rebuilt the suspension, I was surprised to find the stock torsion bars, front and rear. Then I replaced the worn, old bushings with rubber bushings from Elephant racing. Afterward, I was surprised with how soft the car rode. To be honest, it felt a little too soft for me.

Since then I've upgraded the rear torsion bars with Turbo bars and the front and rear swaybars with ones from a later Carrera. Now the car has a really nice balance, still rides smooth and quiet, but handles pretty flat.

[sean m]

I can see I've got some work ahead of me.

James........no, the torsion bars have never been changed.

Josh.....no knock or suspension noises.

Actually, the car handles very well. This is just a weekend driver.
I'll dive in and let you guys know what I find.

Thanks all

[tirwin]

Any chance someone replaced (upgraded) the motor and tranny mounts with solid mounts instead of rubber? Most likely not the case, but easy enough to check for.

[sean m]

tirwin.....just checked with both previous owners. Nothing done to the tranny or motor mounts.

[sean m]

Here's where I'm going in order.

1. Tires......old and hard as a rock (15 inch and from what I can see on the forum, hard to find)
2. Bushings.....great video on youtube Porsche 911 Rubber control arm bushing replacement installation - YouTube
3. Shocks/inserts....car is 37 years old....got to be done at some point.

Thanks all

[Bulldog9]

When reflectors jar your teeth, definitely change your tires...... Will likely become much more liveable. I dont have a lot of experience with this, but I recently did a complete tear out of my suspension F&R and have repaired/replaced/reconditioned just about everything... OK, everything except the rack. I was running the original 76 Boge oil filled struts, and suspension bushings, about 95K miles, and the car had sat for 15+ years.

What I found was that the front 'bushings' were completely stiff, so much so that they were literally stuck in place and the torsion bar needed help to get the control arm to drop down to its lowest point. Once I removed the torsion bar (had to bang out because it was still under pressure) and the strut off I could not budge the control arms. In researching what to replace the bushings with, I discovered that by design, the stock suspension bushings literally twist with suspension movement.

I was planning the URO bushing set, then moved to Elephant Rubber, then to Polybronze, and ended up with the Rebel Racing. Talk about SMOOTH, great articulation, and ZERO resistance or binding. Allows the strut and torsion bars to work. I reinstalled the Sachs inserts, I know Bilstein and Koni are 'infashion' but Sachs is a great quality unit and will serve well (for a huge cost savings), especially as I will do little to no track time. Take your time, source your parts well, and enjoy! IMO, dropping the whole front crossmember/rack strut assemblies makes this job much easier than if left on the car, especially the tierod swap.


Enjoy!

[tirwin]

tirwin.....just checked with both previous owners. Nothing done to the tranny or motor mounts.

You've got a bunch of great suggestions on where to start. I would also add replacing the mounts to the list. If they have never been done before, it sounds like it's time. If the old mounts are hard or worn out, that could contribute to the harshness of the ride.

I've been buying up parts for a suspension refresh. I would suggest a call to Chuck Moreland at Elephant Racing. I think he'll help you whether you just want to refresh what you've got or go crazy with upgrades.

[testa-rossa]

I'll give you my .02 cents as I had the same issues as you did and before I began I knew less than you did about 911 suspensions.

I ended up going all in and dismantled all of the front suspension. I ended up refreshing the front suspension and getting new wheels/tires. Rear suspension is next. I did it all by myself. So if I can do it then ANYONE can do it.

I would start by jacking the car up, and taking a lot of pictures, then post them here. You'll get good advice from everyone.

Bottom line... you probably need to replace the tie rods/ends, bushings, shocks, tires, engine/tranny mounts.

Just plan on spending at least $4k.