AC question.

[rnln]

A friend shop pump some freon into my AC a while ago. I got "cool" for a while, never cold. Today, I was sitting in my back yard to get some fresh air after a long drive in the afternoon and remember everyone *****ing about our old 911 AC. Everyone knows it is bad while the 964 AC is much better.
Has anyone retrofit the 964 AC into the 911 carrera, or even a thought? Possible? How hard is it? How much parts involve?

[ruf-porsche]

People had replace part of their system with the 964 system. The most popular item to replace or add is the front condenser with the electric fan.

[rnln]

Fron fan on my car is ellectrical. I think it is the same on older car. Anyone know what is the diff between the 911 carrera and the 964? What makes the 964 AC better?

[JTL]

Ruf is talking about the 964 a/c condenser with fan which is located in the drivers side front fender area. You are prolly referring to the oil cooler with fan in the passenger front fender area?

jt
-84 targa

[ruf-porsche]

SC and Carrera had electric fans in the front condenser. It just that that the front condenser is too small and the fan does not push a lot of air (CFM).

[kepperly]

86 carrera's had small vents, 87's were larger and improved the airflow, into the cabin. Try also just dropping the front condensor down enough to spay it will some fin clean and get a fin comb to
straighten any damage and improve the cooling. This is a dark
secret inside the repair biz. They losen the schrader valve a
slight amount and allow the freon to actually leak out. When you get your a/c serviced make sure you tighten both the high pressure schrader valve and the low pressure one before you put the valve stem caps back on.

Keith Epperly
87 slant nose turbo look carrera cabriolet

[ruf-porsche]

Originally posted by kepperly
This is a dark secret inside the repair biz. They losen the schrader valve a slight amount and allow the freon to actually leak out.

Naw, Really, you mean there are dishonest mechanics in this world?

What next, telling us that there are WMD in IRAQ?

[JTL]

Ok - I'm going on a tangent from the actual topic here but...

Sc's have a loop type oil cooler without fan
Carrera 84-86 have a brass tube cooler without fan
Carrera 87+ have a radiator style cooler with fan and thermostat

As far as a/c in Carrera 1's there is a front condenser with fan in the nose that has a boot mounted fan. Let's not get the oil and a/c mixed up here.

jt
-84 Carrera

[rnln]

JTL,
I was talking about the AC condensor I ahve up front, behind front bumper, with fan inside the hood.
Actually the carrera 87+ has 2 condensors. One up front, you were talking about. And one on the engine lid grill. The rear one doesn't have fan.

ruf-porsche,
understand what you mean now. So if we can have a bigger condensor, and stronger fan, our AC will improve?
Do you know how much improvement if we can go with same size 964 condensor and fan?

[dmwallace]

I'm looking to improve my A/C as well; from reading many posts in this forum it seems as though replacing the evaporator with a modern serpentine version + adding a Pro Cooler instead of the stock receiver dryer gives the best results for the investment and doesn't require replacement of the condensors.

David.

'89 3.2 coupe

[kuehl]

Originally posted by rnln,
Has anyone retrofit the 964 AC into the 911 carrera, or even a thought? Possible? How hard is it? How much parts involve?

Yes, a few owners have put part of the 964 AC in the earlier 911's and if you search the forum you can read and look.
However what was installed was the single condenser and its blower fan into the LH front fender area .... which requires hacking. It can be done but not a nice weekend DIY project if you want a cherry job.

Your best solution is new barrier hoses for integrity, more condenser(s) for moving the btu's out of the refrigerant and a good serpentine evaporator to move the heat from the car into the refrigerant faster.

With regard to the 964/993 vs. earlier 911's evaporators, its simply apples vs. pineapples. The 964 brought an entirely different approach (domestic like) and to give you an idea:
if you had to R&R and evaporator on a 911 you could do it with a few hand tools and 1-3 hours depending if you are reading the instructions and the wife is not watching.
In comparison, if you had to R&R a 964 or 993 evaporator, you would have to nearly remove the gas tank, half the junk in its firewall, read a manual that tells you squat, consult a few friends and buy lots of beer to support them on your first time DIY team effort, figure 8-10 hours.

Lot's of products to choose from in this arena but I won't make any recommendations

[rnln]

::
I am done with this thought

Thanks guys.

[ruf-porsche]

Here's a picture of the fender mounted front condenser with a fan.

[kuehl]

That is a "cherry" installation.

[drb930]

Originally Posted by ruf-porsche

Here's a picture of the fender mounted front condenser with a fan.

Bumping this thread for latest info.
In the pic the battery box has been shaved, correct?

[GH85Carrera]

Griffith's sells two condensers that fit in the driver's side rear fender. Bot have fans, and go it pretty easily with his trick brackets. The simply work. I have those to plus my OEM condensers front and rear. Four condensers total. They kick ass. In Palm Springs in 2023 it was 107. I had 37 degree blowing on my at hurricane speeds and was almost cold. Until I turned the car off and opened the door and felt the full 107 degrees.

No hacking, no inventing the wheel. His instructions make it easy. Or experiment and bodge something together. I went with the full Mr. Ice setup and love it.

[porschedude996]

Originally Posted by rnln

A friend shop pump some freon into my AC a while ago. I got "cool" for a while, never cold. Today, I was sitting in my back yard to get some fresh air after a long drive in the afternoon and remember everyone *****ing about our old 911 AC. Everyone knows it is bad while the 964 AC is much better.
Has anyone retrofit the 964 AC into the 911 carrera, or even a thought? Possible? How hard is it? How much parts involve?

Are you talking about the whole system including the front air box?

The 964 System is very complex. I had the temperature control valves fail, all 5 of them. They are a bit of a pain to get to, but the big thing is the cost! They, the valves, have a potentiometer inside the valve assembly that (I guess, can’t really recall 30+ years ago) report back to the controller the valve position. The valve adjusts to trim the temp constantly. So it wears or burns a spot in the potentiometer. The pot is a plastic, somewhat flexible sheet with a resistant trace that a wiper sweeps across. Dirt embeds into the sweet spot and resistance goes up furthering the problem. I tried to fix them, but had to replace.

I wouldn’t suggest taking on a project like that, the whole system.

I recently installed the Griffiths upgrade #2 (bigger evaporator, barrier hoses, modern compressor, with front and rear condenser, upgraded front condenser fan, and upgraded evaporator fan. I also added the lower middle air vent above the center console. I have yet to drive the car, but my understanding is this is a huge upgrade over the factory system. I don’t think Porsche in the day cared much about A/C. The system was marginally effective and some of the parts were cheap and fragile. Behr made the parts, maybe the design. It was probably the Southern California sales that insisted on A/C.

[drb930]

Here is the guy with a White 73 911 that has been converted to a speedster that has a whole 964 A/C system in it.
https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/1973-porsche-911-speedster-36l/

I have seen the car Lluftgekuhlt a couple of times.