Cost of the Track?

[AFB24911S]

Pelican Parts Brain Trust,

I've put a lot of work and parts into my treasured '77 911 Targa, and it finally drives exactly the way I wanted it to when I bought it 5 years ago, but now I am wondering whether to take it to HDPE or not. 211k miles, original 2.7L with CIS, chain tensioners, one rebuild in 1989 at 134k miles. It has a front oil cooler as well.

How taxing are HDPE events on an air-cooled car in the summer? I want to enjoy the car to its fullest, and more importantly I want to learn to be a better driver, but I cannot afford for a track weekend to cost $1,000. How much should I budget for a track day? Pads, fluid, and slicks? More?

I already have a second set of wheels for racing slicks, I own a helmet that ought to work for the track, and the car is in as good a shape as it'll ever be besides an engine rebuild. What are the odds the engine lets go due to increased wear and tear caused by track work?

Thanks in advance!

[mikesarge]

Take it to the track! If it’s your first time out don’t sweat getting slicks. Just drive with the slow group (if it’s your first day in that car, it’s probably where you belong anyway), and get a feel for the car. You don’t need anything fancy for a track day, and these cars love being driven hard.

[917_Langheck]

Or maybe do an autocross. Quite a bit less stress on the engine in terms of sustained heat, and a lot less use of brakes. Plus, the shorter track will put a premium on chassis dynamics and understanding how it is performing. Most importantly, offs tend to be less costly. If the autocross track is big (<20 ac lot) then you can get some good 2nd-3rd gear runs in; maybe a sweeper to test throttle steering, and off-camber corners or a tight avoidance chicane to test balance and grip.

[PeteKz]

Ditto what the others said. Definitely do autocross and track.

Don't buy race tires, just drive it on your street tires. That's what you will drive the car on the other 99% of the time, so you will get more experience driving with those tires at their limits, which will help you if you get into an emergency maneuver in real life. Learn to drive your car as fast as it can go before you spend $$$ on go-fast upgrades.

Don't worry about the engine. Keep it below the redline and it will be fine. Oil temperature: You have a temp gauge, so watch it and if it gets to 240+ then slow down or bring it into the paddock. If you still have concerns about the engine, take an oil sample and have it analyzed (I use Blackstone Labs). No need to change the oil for a track day.

Brake fluid: If it's more than 6 months old, change it just before your first track event (don't worry about AX, as your brakes won't get hot enough).

Go have fun, and remember, "it's more fun to drive a slow car fast, than a fast car slow."

[silverlock]

You absolutely don’t need “slicks” - a good set of high perf summer tires or “streetable” 200TW/R-compounds will be fine.

Agree with Pete on the rest. Make sure your brakes are good. Fresh fluid is nice to have. A PCA HPDE (if that’s what you’re attending) is going to also have you spend time with an instructor before you go solo too.

AX can be nicer to get started + good way to learn a car. Sometimes the “downtime” between runs irks, but if you find a well-organized group it’s never too bad.

[AFB24911S]

Awesome tips, thank you! I think I can afford brake fluid, and "slow car fast" = happiness.

I've done some autocrosses, and they rule, but I feel I could learn more on a high speed track (and have different fun).

Again, really appreciate you all!

[shoooo32]

Send it. I'd start with autoX and move to HPDE if you had a good time killing cones. Your local PCA in Denver has an AX school and a DE program w/instructors.

[Bill Verburg]

If you've never been on a track, hopefully you will be w/an instructor and likely no going really fast.

again, hopefully, your car has passed the pre track day tech and day of tech w/o issues

meet w/ your instructor early and discuss your goals for the day, then listen carefully during your time in the car w/ him/her

the most likely part to be stressed is the brakes, nearly all beginners overuse the brakes, so it wouldn't hurt to use new(broken in) pads, and certainly > 50% and the best fresh brake fluid you can buy(Castrol SRF)

[Alan L]

My only other comment would be to make haste slowly - with your prized posession. Don't expect to go out there and nail the field. Build up your ability in stages - progressively. ie push the car a little deeper into the corners once you are happy and settled. Apply a little more throttle exiting, a little bit earlier than previous - once you are happy and settled. By the end of the day you won't believe what you have achieved.
If you scare yourself first time round, then it takes a while to get back from that.
Good luck. You will see your car in a new light and your driver confidence in it will be greatly improved once you learn what the limits really are.
You can track it basically in the same condition you drove it to the track - as long as everything is up to scratch. In the earlier days (70's- early 80's) our Porsche race series guys used to drive their race cars to the track. They likely had a race set of tyres with them. Raced all weekend, then drove them home again.
Alan
Edit - I recall now - they raced on Bridgestone road legal track tyres. So they really did drive there, race, then drive home again.
I recall one driver complaining about his sluggish practise times - then he opened the frunk and saw the spare tyre and a bunch of tools.

[zztot]

First thing is I am all in but $1k is easy to spend. Gas, entry, hotel and safety gear.
Don’t do it without insurance……(track) bc sh_ t happens.

[cmcfaul]

a two day DE (PCA Drivers Education) would cost me about a grand. The event, cheap hotel a set of brake pads and gas.

Chris

[wildthing]

I took my 88 to Sonoma last summer (high 90s). Ran like a champ. Got up to maybe within a millimeter of the highest white line (250 deg F I believe), which is normal for that time of year. I go with HOD, and they have one day events for like $400-$600 depending on run group and instruction. Helmets needed to be SA2015 or newer. I did have to leave early at 6AM from home. No hotels or overnight expenses.

[Alan L]

Originally Posted by AFB24911S

Pelican Parts Brain Trust,


How taxing are HDPE events on an air-cooled car in the summer? I want to enjoy the car to its fullest, and more importantly I want to learn to be a better driver, but I cannot afford for a track weekend to cost $1,000. How much should I budget for a track day? Pads, fluid, and slicks? More?

The other thing I would add is check your brake pads. If they are any where near needing a change out, fit new ones. You will be on street pads - which are soft and will chop out quickly at the track. Depending on how much track time and how hard you push it, you can chop a lot out of a set in a day. Maybe fit new ones, and use them for the track days and then put your old ones back . Whatever works but you don't want to be driving home at the end of the day with graunching brakes.
Track time doesn't come free. Just some days/ways are cheaper than others.
Alan

[GH85Carrera]

Do it. Just use street tires. Do not push to the limits. If you are in a group with modern Porsches, you will be the slowest one on track. Don't let ego make your decisions, relax and have fun, don't even worry about lap times.








I did Barber Motorsports and Talladega this summer. Barber is beautiful, and I had the only air cooled car in a field of 165 cars. Talladega was a follow the leader, no passing, but I was cruising along at 125 MPH, AC on, and my wife in the passenger seat on the 33 degree banking.

Get yourself an instructor. Likely they will require you to have one and they will put you in the beginner group. If the instructor tells you to hit the curbs too shave a little time, ignore that advice. No reason to abuse your suspension to gain a 1/10 of a second.

Most important, have fun!

[Matt Monson]

Call Michael Petifird at Go4it racing in Louisville. Pay him for some private instruction out at hpr. You’ll drive your car just as it sits or one of his. He is an excellent instructor and driver.

After that you can start doing the HPR half day open lapping events on Fridays. Just run in the slow sessions. It’s pretty casual. It’s not racing at all.

You do not need to do nasa or PCA DE instruction unless you only have weekends open. Open Fridays are of no value if you can’t get the time off work during the summer.

[Bill Douglas]

I don't take track days too seriously. I'm not out to win. I just drive faster than I would on the street knowing there is no curb, no one coming the other way and no police man to lock me up for the night.

I sometimes go when my tires are getting close to needing replacing and I practice throttle steering around the corners, sliding into the corners and fast out. Basically just having a good time.

Costs me very little as I drive there and back again at the end of the day. The Porsche loves me for it as it's had a day of under load and lots of revs to burn the carbon off.

So, my advice is just have a good time and stay well within your comfortable limits.

[David Inc.]

One thing I'd say about instruction is that, at some point, you want your instructor to drive your car. I don't know if HPDEs allow this, but in my case this was what really showed me the limits of the car such that I knew where I could start to push--it felt like a cheat code for fast advancement because what you might feel is 100% might actually be 80%.

And this was with a good bit of experience in autoX before that event. 100% in autoX feels extremely different from 100% on track.

[HarryD]

Since retiring, I have done 6-8 HPDE in my mostly stock 1973 with street tires. It is a blast. As others noted, change your brake fluid every 6-12 months and be sure you have at least 50% brake pad material.

Be sure you get an instructor to ride along to show you the line and provide other coaching.

Not sure who offers programs in your area, but for me in the Pacific Northwest, I use Hooked On driving, PCA-NWR, and The Cascade Sports Car Club. All have an emphasis on safety and your ability to drive your car home at the end of the day.

[p1973rsr911]

I don't know about other regions but the Northeast region does a "taste of the track" during lunch break. Usually a $20 donation that goes to a charity. Does not require a helmet and the speeds are limited. A good way to get a better idea of what HPDE is all about.

If you do sign up for a full HPDE event, all you need is a helmet that meets or exceeds SA2015 requirements and a car that is in good shape. You don't need special brake pads, racing tires, 6-point harnesses, etc. Like others have said, don't overthink it. The usual feedback I get from most new drivers is "why did I wait so long to try HPDE".

[HarryD]

Originally Posted by p1973rsr911

I don't know about other regions but the Northeast region does a "taste of the track" during lunch break. Usually a $20 donation that goes to a charity. Does not require a helmet and the speeds are limited. A good way to get a better idea of what HPDE is all about.

If you do sign up for a full HPDE event, all you need is a helmet that meets or exceeds SA2015 requirements and a car that is in good shape. You don't need special brake pads, racing tires, 6-point harnesses, etc. Like others have said, don't overthink it. The usual feedback I get from most new drivers is "why did I wait so long to try HPDE".

Totally agree. All you need to start is a safe car and a good attitude. A 911 in stock form exceeds the capabilities of most drivers.