Apologies; Brad Penn vs....

[Rtrorkt]

OK, did a search for the oil thread and got through 11 pages and did not find it, so apologies for a separate oil thread. Just want simple answers no editorials.

Been using Brad Penn or Penngrade 20/50 in my 3.2. Suggestion was made to go to LiquiMoly or Motul. In looking at the prices, they both seem to be between 30% and 50% more in price than the Penn.

Simple question, is Penngrade that less quality?

[WonkoTheSane]

The simplest answer I think, is if you care enough to research oil, then you most likely care enough to change oil regularly. If you are changing oil regularly, then at the end of the day it doesn't matter which brand you go with.

[HarryD]

As in many things, the answer is .... it depends.

For what I have been able to find out, part of what make BP Special was the additive package that Lubrizol has discontinued.

Many continue to use BP.

Some like VR-1.

Some like Mobil 1.

Some like the Joe Gibbs Products.

LiquiMoly and Motul are fine products as well.

The issue has to do with excessive flat tappet cam wear in the newer oils with reduced ZDDP.

If you change your oil frequently (around 5.000 miles) I suspect any of the 20W-50 formulations of these are ok.

[ErrorMargin]

Originally Posted by HarryD

If you change your oil frequently (around 5.000 miles) I suspect any of the 20W-50 formulations of these are ok.

Totally agree.

I suspect it makes more of a difference if you are using a conventional vs. synthetic offering from a top manufacturer than which particular synthetic or conventional oil. And there are lots of strong opinions on the use of conventional vs synthetic in an air-cooled 911...so many it is hardly worth discussing. You can find plenty of threads on the topic here and even more on bob is the oil guy.

Pick an oil, stick with it (don't change to different oils), change it regularly and you will be fine.

[Kevin Stewart]

I used to run Mobile one in everything, years ago Mobile one racing oil stopped putting zinc and additives in the oil. I smoked my aluminum headed motor In my Outlaw super late because of it. Took the motor to the builder he asked what oil I used I said mobile one, he said you must not have got the memo they changed it.

moral of the story Put in something with zinc and change it often if you are racing events. I change the race car oil very couple races regardless of the oil company saying add a court and change the filter.

Synthetic with zinc.

[theiceman]

another oil thread ....

Bradd Penn is fine ... no issues..

[pmax]

Originally Posted by Rtrorkt

OK, did a search for the oil thread and got through 11 pages and did not find it, so apologies for a separate oil thread. Just want simple answers no editorials.

Been using Brad Penn or Penngrade 20/50 in my 3.2. Suggestion was made to go to LiquiMoly or Motul. In looking at the prices, they both seem to be between 30% and 50% more in price than the Penn.

Simple question, is Penngrade that less quality?

What 30-50% ?

[Rtrorkt]

Originally Posted by pmax

What 30-50% ?

Guess I was bad a math. Seems your find on LiquiMoly works out at a bit over $7 per quart. Thank you

[pmax]

Incidentally ...



Sigh.

[PeteKz]

I'll note what I've said in several other threads: If you really want to know how well your oil is performing, then you must do oil analysis. Anything else is just guessing.

I use Blackstone Labs. My samples show that oil is good for a lot longer than you think, usually 2x-3x longer. Blackstone also doesn't find much, if any, difference between brands. But don't take my word for it. Instead take a sample and send it to a lab. And go to Blackstone Labs online forums to read more about their testing.

[Bill Verburg]

Originally Posted by Kevin Stewart

I used to run Mobile one in everything, years ago Mobile one racing oil stopped putting zinc and additives in the oil. I smoked my aluminum headed motor In my Outlaw super late because of it. Took the motor to the builder he asked what oil I used I said mobile one, he said you must not have got the memo they changed it.

moral of the story Put in something with zinc and change it often if you are racing events. I change the race car oil very couple races regardless of the oil company saying add a court and change the filter.

Synthetic with zinc.

Interesting comment as Mobile 1 racing oil has one of the higher Zinc & Phosphorus levels of any commercially available oils

there are 2 versions
0w-30 w/ 1750ppm P & 1850 ppm Zn
0w-50 ditto

what they lack is the detergent packages that are needed for extended street useage oil change intervals.

all that's really needed w/ the cam profiles usually seen in street 9211s is M1 15w-50 w/ 1200ppm P & 1300ppm Zn which does have the extended usage detergent packages

If you have more then usually aggressive cam profiles then you might consider something more than 1200/1300

[MrBonus]

I've run 3 or 4 different brands of ZDDP-heavy 20W50 in my 3.2 and now my 2.7. None of my engines have blown up, none burned or leaked oil at a meaningfully different rate, none created a different operating result save for extremely unremarkably small variances in operating temperatures that may have simply been due to ambient weather differences.

I run Valvoline lately simply due to availability and cost.

[ErrorMargin]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

My samples show that oil is good for a lot longer than you think, usually 2x-3x longer.

How long do you go between oil changes in your 911?

[PeteKz]

Not sure yet. I'm coming up on 5000 miles on this oil change. Previous oil changes were shorter due to me rebuilding the engine a couple years ago. I will be sending in a sample in the next month or so. Then I will decide how much longer to run it. I'm thinking between 10,000 and 15,000. I do about 10,000-12,000 miles in my Ford GT, which I have been sampling for the last 60,000 miles. It also has a dry sump with 9 qts. of oil.

[Kevin Stewart]

Originally Posted by Bill Verburg

Interesting comment as Mobile 1 racing oil has one of the higher Zinc & Phosphorus levels of any commercially available oils

there are 2 versions
0w-30 w/ 1750ppm P & 1850 ppm Zn
0w-50 ditto

what they lack is the detergent packages that are needed for extended street useage oil change intervals.

all that's really needed w/ the cam profiles usually seen in street 9211s is M1 15w-50 w/ 1200ppm P & 1300ppm Zn which does have the extended usage detergent packages

If you have more then usually aggressive cam profiles then you might consider something more than 1200/1300

Bill, I just researched it again and you are correct. I am not sure why the motor builder would of told me that in 2010. I haven't used him in a long time, my new builder also ask me not to use it. I know at that time I had read an article that they removed zinc from 15-50 racing oil and they also removed the flag off the bottle.

The motor was an 18 degree 358 cid Chevy motor roller cam, roller rockers, pure race.

I still run mobile one in my Benz and the wife's M.

Amsoil has impressed me in my dually diesel.

Thank for your update Bill, I appreciate it.

[Jeff Alton]

After years of purchasing and distributing pallet sized orders of Brad Penn oils, we now have been using Liquimoly 20/50 for about 7 years for our aircooled servicing and engine builds. Very pleased with it. For us, the cost is the same, as we buy bulk 205L drums vs 85 cases of 1qt bottles by the pallet. I am a big fan of Liquimoly products, but also think that the Brad Penn products are great quality. They just became too difficult to deal with logistically- no response to emails and calls, then big increase in shipping costs etc... So we dropped them.

We have an extensive range of LM products in stock, mostly bulk, for all kinds of approval requirements for the vehicles we service. 20 plus different products always in stock.

Cheers

Cheers

[Jeff Alton]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Not sure yet. I'm coming up on 5000 miles on this oil change. Previous oil changes were shorter due to me rebuilding the engine a couple years ago. I will be sending in a sample in the next month or so. Then I will decide how much longer to run it. I'm thinking between 10,000 and 15,000. I do about 10,000-12,000 miles in my Ford GT, which I have been sampling for the last 60,000 miles. It also has a dry sump with 9 qts. of oil.

You have a Ford GT with 60K miles on it? Like an 05 or 06 Ford GT? or a Mustange GT? We look after an 06 GT and it only has 5500 miles on it since new!

Cheers

[HarryD]

FYI, comparing the lubrication needs for a flat tappet motor to a roller tappet motor is comparing apples to nuts.

It is my understanding that research has shown that for a Roller Tappet motor, the level of ZDDP needed to protect the cam lobes does not need to be so high. This was part of the reasoning to lower ZDDP in the newer formulations as all newer cars use roller tappets to improve gas milage.

[Kevin Stewart]

Originally Posted by HarryD

FYI, comparing the lubrication needs for a flat tappet motor to a roller tappet motor is comparing apples to nuts.

It is my understanding that research has shown that for a Roller Tappet motor, the level of ZDDP needed to protect the cam lobes does not need to be so high. This was part of the reasoning to lower ZDDP in the newer formulations as all newer cars use roller tappets to improve gas milage.

You

Hi I am not sure you are referring to my post. There is no OE parts in my motor. everything is after market. I do see your point on friction on a solid tapped motor. I change my oil way more then other people do even in my street cars. I want the dirt out. I guess I could strain the oil and put it back in. I wish I would have taken a picture of the inside of my Peterson tank just before I cleaned it, It is black. But to each their own on oil brand, type and frequency of oil change.

[PeteKz]

Originally Posted by Jeff Alton

You have a Ford GT with 60K miles on it? Like an 05 or 06 Ford GT? or a Mustange GT? We look after an 06 GT and it only has 5500 miles on it since new!

Cheers

It's a 2005 Ford GT, and I have 90,000 miles on it. I've been doing oil analysis since 30,000. I'm not the highest mileage out there, though. A friend of mine in Seattle has 150K on his. I want to hit 100K this year. I have to use if for more grocery and coffee runs instead of my F150 or 1973 911.