Best standalone for ITB setup in 2025?

[JKarow08]

Ahoy,

I'm about to rebuild my 2.4l and am planning on running ITBs and COP. I know this is a loaded question, but what is the best current option for a standalone? I know this has been covered but computer technology evolves rapidly and standalone ecu options are constantly improving. My current shortlist includes Megasquirt ms3 pro evo, Ecumasters EMU black, Emtron shadow 8, Haltech Nexus S3, and Motec m130. I know there are cheaper models in each company's ecu line, but I'd like the newest option possible to maximize processing speed and ensure long term support. Cost is definitely a consideration, if one of the cheaper options is as effective as the Motec I'll definitely go that route.

Thanks in advance for your insight and opinions!

-Josh

[ToySnakePMC]

I only know one, and it’s ECUMaster Black. Very happy with it. But find one that your local tuner is familiar with if you need help like I did with initial tuning. Best of luck. It’s fun!
Patrick

[winders]

MoTec M130 or Emtron.....

[Jesse911]

I'm in the same process but I'm going with ECUmaster black mainly because of a tuner local to me who is a dealer and has a dyno.

Also the ECUmaster has integrated wideband support. Some others you need to buy a separate module for that.

[Showdown]

There’s no single correct answer.

It’s all based on what you need, want, your limitations (tech, financial, etc…) and of course the car.

Give us some specifics and parameters and you’ll get a better response. Absent details, everyone will just blindly suggest the systems they know.

For my 2.7 with M1 cams, COP, ITBs and EFI, the MS3ProMini was perfect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[montauk]

I'm using the Haltech Nexus R3 because it has a built-in PDU, which was a key factor in my decision. I also wanted native DBW support, which not all ECUs offer—some require an additional module. The R3 also includes wideband O2 and MAP sensors.

The onboard PDU eliminates the need for a relay panel, although the ECU/PDU combo is more expensive than using a separate ECU and relay board. If I need more control over higher amp loads in the future, I can always add relays. Currently, the four 25A outputs are set up to run the injectors, ignition, fuel pump, and starter solenoid.

Another great feature of the R3 is its WiFi capability, allowing me to connect my laptop without a cable. While this isn't a huge advantage in a small car, there's also an app for my phone, which is really convenient. It means I can monitor the ECU without having to carry my laptop around.

I hope to have it running soon but I feel like I've been saying that for weeks. Right now, I'm waiting for a K type thermocouple spark plug wire and some electronics to make it all work with the R3.

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by ToySnakePMC

I only know one, and it’s ECUMaster Black. Very happy with it. But find one that your local tuner is familiar with if you need help like I did with initial tuning. Best of luck. It’s fun!
Patrick

Ecumaster Black definitely looks to be the best bang for the buck, similar price to a ms3pro evo but sounds like it has better support and less "bugs" to sort out. Any complaints or issues tuning or wiring? The tuner I used for my last build (Subaru) seemed willing and able to tune on any standalone platform, had never touched a Hydra Nemesis 2.7 which I used for my ez30r swap (or tuned that motor), and by the end of my dyno session we were putting down as much power as anyone in the country with the same setup. Kelly Moss mentioned they use Emtron, but I'm pretty confident any competent tuner should be able to tune with any of these. Thanks!

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by winders

MoTec M130 or Emtron.....

Motec definitely has the best reputation, I'm just not sure if the added cost provides any features or capabilities any of these other options don't. Emtron seems to have a similar reputation to Motec at a slightly lower cost, Kelly Moss indicated they use it for their builds for that reason. The new Emtron Shadow 8 looks to be a great new option at a reasonable price point, just wish it had been released already so others could provide some feedback, a little scared to be the guinea pig.

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by Showdown

There’s no single correct answer.

It’s all based on what you need, want, your limitations (tech, financial, etc…) and of course the car.

Give us some specifics and parameters and you’ll get a better response. Absent details, everyone will just blindly suggest the systems they know.

For my 2.7 with M1 cams, COP, ITBs and EFI, the MS3ProMini was perfect.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, I knew this was kind of a loaded question, as you said, most only have experience with one and if it worked that becomes the best option. I'm just hoping to hear from those that had positive or negative experiences and see what is popular, having a community of feedback support is definitely helpful.

I'm still finalizing my build but it is looking like I'll be building a 2.4l with 9.7:1 compression, S heads, dc30 cams, racehead ITBs, single denso logic level COP, clewett crank/cam sensors, IAC, full sequential ignition, and knock control. I'm hoping/planning on running a blended map of speed density and alpha-n. The motor is going into my champagne yellow '73 911t, it'll be her first time back on the road since '79, doing a full restoration on her this summer.

The ms3pro mini is an amazing value...I'm going to run full sequential though so I ruled that one out.

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by montauk

I'm using the Haltech Nexus R3 because it has a built-in PDU, which was a key factor in my decision. I also wanted native DBW support, which not all ECUs offer—some require an additional module. The R3 also includes wideband O2 and MAP sensors.

The onboard PDU eliminates the need for a relay panel, although the ECU/PDU combo is more expensive than using a separate ECU and relay board. If I need more control over higher amp loads in the future, I can always add relays. Currently, the four 25A outputs are set up to run the injectors, ignition, fuel pump, and starter solenoid.

Another great feature of the R3 is its WiFi capability, allowing me to connect my laptop without a cable. While this isn't a huge advantage in a small car, there's also an app for my phone, which is really convenient. It means I can monitor the ECU without having to carry my laptop around.

I hope to have it running soon but I feel like I've been saying that for weeks. Right now, I'm waiting for a K type thermocouple spark plug wire and some electronics to make it all work with the R3.

Hhhmmmm...I didn't read much into the R3, didn't realize it had an on board PDU, that would definitely simplify some of the wiring. My only experience with standalone wiring was with a Hydra Nemesis 2.7 and it had a plug and play jumper to the factory ecu harness in my Subaru with flying leads to run the additional cylinders/sensors/etc, and I wired the merge as a jumper between the factory engine harness and the factory plug on the firewall. That was definitely a different animal in terms of wiring, and because it utilized most of the factory wiring I didn't have to consider where to draw power for injectors, coils, fuel pump, etc. An on board PDU would definitely simplify wiring when starting from scratch like I will be with this motor.

The wifi is definitely a plus, and I didn't even realize they had a phone app for monitoring, that would be really nice.

Hhhmmmm...

[Showdown]

Another element to consider, that has been mentioned before is whether or not you're going to be tuning this yourself or paying someone. Something like Haltech has the ability to allow someone remotely log into the ECU and tune it which is really cool if you are building a super complex engine and anticipate issues... maybe not needed on more modest builds.

Megasquirt has a massive user base and active forums and is someone open source which may be helpful if you're going the DIY route.

I don't know much about the other brands. MoTec has been around forever and offers race-ready solutions which are pretty stunning in both engineering and cost...

If paying someone to tune it, I'd likely defer to their ECU of choice, particularly if they're a dealer and can provide aftermarket support...

And finally, you might want to consider (maybe not) if the ECU offers any outputs for accessories like gauges or displays... I know that a few of the ECU's (Megasquirt, MaxxECU) use a standard open source CANBUS protocol that enables anyone to receive data and use it as they wish. I'm not sure about the others and whether or not is proprietary or encrypted to their own products. Not necessarily a key factor but one to consider...

You never know when someone is going to develop a vintage 911-specific digital gauge for aftermarket ECUs that fits into the clock hole and blends in seamlessly with a hidden button while delivering 10 screens of customizable data on a high resolution anti-glare screen...

Also MS3ProMini can run sequential fuel and wasted COP spark, totally fine for a non-race motor.

[montauk]

Haltech's CAN capabilities are impressive, and while I'd love to explore them further, my priority is getting my 911 back on the road.

One quirky issue I'm facing is finding a spot for the start/stop button without drilling holes in the dash, which I refuse to do. I think I'll replace the cigarette lighter with the button instead. If I need to charge my phone, I'll discreetly hide a couple of USB-C ports somewhere.

Another benefit of using an ECU is that I can wire a start/stop button in the engine compartment for testing purposes. Small thing but crawling under the car to hook up my remote starter button is a pain.

[montauk]

Originally Posted by Showdown

You never know when someone is going to develop a vintage 911-specific digital gauge for aftermarket ECUs that fits into the clock hole and blends in seamlessly with a hidden button while delivering 10 screens of customizable data on a high resolution anti-glare screen...

You know, you really should do that!!!

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by Showdown

Another element to consider, that has been mentioned before is whether or not you're going to be tuning this yourself or paying someone. Something like Haltech has the ability to allow someone remotely log into the ECU and tune it which is really cool if you are building a super complex engine and anticipate issues... maybe not needed on more modest builds.

Megasquirt has a massive user base and active forums and is someone open source which may be helpful if you're going the DIY route.

I don't know much about the other brands. MoTec has been around forever and offers race-ready solutions which are pretty stunning in both engineering and cost...

If paying someone to tune it, I'd likely defer to their ECU of choice, particularly if they're a dealer and can provide aftermarket support...

And finally, you might want to consider (maybe not) if the ECU offers any outputs for accessories like gauges or displays... I know that a few of the ECU's (Megasquirt, MaxxECU) use a standard open source CANBUS protocol that enables anyone to receive data and use it as they wish. I'm not sure about the others and whether or not is proprietary or encrypted to their own products. Not necessarily a key factor but one to consider...

You never know when someone is going to develop a vintage 911-specific digital gauge for aftermarket ECUs that fits into the clock hole and blends in seamlessly with a hidden button while delivering 10 screens of customizable data on a high resolution anti-glare screen...

Also MS3ProMini can run sequential fuel and wasted COP spark, totally fine for a non-race motor.

I'm definitely going to pay someone to tune it, just not sure who yet. Any suggestions on a midwest tuner that has experience with these motors running on ITBs? Midwest Eurosport in Chicago said they had experience dyno tuning this type of setup, need to give them a call again and see which ecu they prefer. When I had my Subaru dyno tuned I utilized VL Tuning in Appleton, WI and he did a fantastic job and wasn't afraid to tune on an unfamiliar standalone, was thinking about using them for this build as well. I know they are a Haltech dealer so I have considered going that route as that would provide local support. Kelly Moss indicated they use Emtron so that would be another local option.

I had initially planned on using a Megasquirt because I've always loved the open source nature and value, and their new offerings seem to compete with the best standalones on the market. Based on my needs/build it looks like the ms3pro evo would be my best option as I'd like to run full sequential ignition and knock control. I considered going wasted spark with a ms3pro mini, but it also lacks internal knock control so I figured it would be best to upgrade to the evo so I'd have both full sequential and knock control as long as I was already going through the standalone wiring headache.

Right now the plan is to use the factory gauges for originality, but being able to use a phone or tablet to monitor via wifi definitely is alluring.

[JKarow08]

After doing a Subaru merge, starting from scratch like this on a simple motor in a chassis with limited electronics seems so easy. My head is still spinning from trying to decipher the wiring diagrams from 2 different cars/motors and getting them to blend seamlessly in one jumper.

But she sure screamed on the dyno when she was done, the "other, other" Porsche motor...

https://youtu.be/bXYaePMKvcI?si=IsWaUNMH25KjlYl3

[Showdown]

Originally Posted by montauk

You know, you really should do that!!!

Stay tuned...

DynoSource in Antioch, IL. and RCAutoworks in Bridgview, IL. both have experience tuning aftermarket stand alone systems.

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by Showdown

Stay tuned...

DynoSource in Antioch, IL. and RCAutoworks in Bridgview, IL. both have experience tuning aftermarket stand alone systems.

Any idea which standalones they prefer? I can reach out if you don't know off the top of your head. I know some tuners are starting to only tune standalones they are dealers for, that became the case with VL Performance in Appleton. They wouldn't tune my car for the guy I sold it to even after they already tuned it once successfully and wanted to sell him a Haltech to replace it.

[Showdown]

No idea off the top of my head- I know both did Megasquirt and that generally means they'll do anything they have software for... that may be the issue in the long run- Having a key or a license to alter the tune of an ECU might be an impediment...

[phunt]

You said you were going to pay someone for tuning. So first thing “buy” your tuner. Pick the guy or shop you are most comfortable with. You going to pay for their expertise. So use what they are experts in. If you buy any particular ECU you maybe stuck with a guy or shop you aren’t necessarily comfortable with and you’re stuck. Lots of good choices for ECU’s. I think most important choice is who you are going to trust with your very expensive car.

[Jjm4life]

Originally Posted by phunt

You said you were going to pay someone for tuning. So first thing “buy” your tuner. Pick the guy or shop you are most comfortable with. You going to pay for their expertise. So use what they are experts in. If you buy any particular ECU you maybe stuck with a guy or shop you aren’t necessarily comfortable with and you’re stuck. Lots of good choices for ECU’s. I think most important choice is who you are going to trust with your very expensive car.

This