Compare the 911 to the Ferrari 308

[GSpreeman]

Am thinking about getting another toy and I like the Ferrari 308. What opinions do we have out there? Good car/bad car? Reliable or not? etc. I'm used to the upkeep of the 911 but have zero experience with a Ferrari, will it kill my wallet? What about driving it compare to a 911?

[dougcl]

Greg,
Subscribe to Sportscar Market.

Doug
75 911S

[stinkpot]

I've heard the 308/328 are "DIYable". I don't remember the address, but there's a good web forum out there for these cars.

[BoogieOnSkis]

I also considered a 308 when I was at the Monterey Sports Car Auction last year and watched a beautiful '82 with only 15,000 miles sell at auction for $24,000. My jaw dropped and I realized I could afford one.

But then I started researching them and discovered that not only are the engines more difficult to work on, they're also more prone to failures.

I was hearing stories like, "If your air conditioning isn't working, wait until you hit the next bump in the road. It'll probably start working again."

My research ended when I started comparing the 308 to the same year 911. There's no comparison. The 911 is far superior and a much better value.

Here's that address that Stinkpot is talking about.

[Elombard]

I will have a 308 GTB some day. They are one of the most beautiful cars ever built. There is some issues. Some of the big car mags have done reports on ownership costs. Ihave a friend with one and he doesnt seem to be fixing it that much. If you are competent on your 911 I would think alot of the stuff would be diy able on the 308. www.FerrariChat.com should have lots of good archived info. Also Forza did some great articles and I think the back issues are still available. From what I understand they are not as fast as a same year 911 (I think that changed with the 328) and the handling/ergonomics etc. is a little quirky - but man are they beautiful. TSpringer here on the board has one of each perhaps he will chime in.

[ChrisBennet]

I believe Road & Track once described the 308 as "faster than some diesels". Pretty cars though.
-Chris

[silverc4s]

There were many variations of the Ferrari 308, with weber carbs, Marelli FI, Bosch CIS, 2 valve heads, 4 valve heads, smog stuff, no smog stuff, alloy bodies even a early fiberglass coupe, and then there is the 328, which is better than any version of 308 in most expert's view.

If you really plan to buy one, at least spend 6 mos to 1 year studying the market first, locate the shops near you, check out all service costs. (a 308 engine ovehaul is much more expensive than a 911, and you ARE NOT going to do it at home)... another BIG difference is that Ferrari owners do NOT modify their cars generally, but attempt to keep it working as originally configured, right down to the original tires & wheels in most cases!!

Very different cars from Porsches... My best friend, a Ferrari nut extraordinaire used to say; "Italians are artists, not engineers", which pretty well sums it up.

IMHO< YMMV, of course...

PS: Oh yeah, Ferrari engines do not last anything like the 75000 to 150000 of a normal Porsche engine. More like 25000 or so.

[jluetjen]

My only experience is sitting in a coworkers QV and my first and only impression was "WOW! These things are cramped for the size of the car on the outside. Where'd all the space go???" Note that I'm 6 ft even and 185, so hardly a big guy. My '69 911 on the other hand has lots of headroom, leg room, elbow room and the same for the passenger.

I have to admit that I too sometimes fantasize about owning an F-car, especially for the engine sound at WOT of of one of the weber carb'd cars. But then I wake up there's my 911 sitting in the garage, ready to go. And the 911 sounds oh-so-cool too when the MFI is singing at WOT. Dreaming's fun, but they never pan out as well in real life. Besides, we live in reality.

Good Luck!

[Paul Thomas]

Wait until you can afford a 355.

Paul

[epbrown]

As someone said, Sports Car Market would be a good source for this, along with perhaps Ferrari Market Letter. The managing editor of the former is actively looking for a 308QV model, and there was a recent profile of the 308 in the magazine. Generally, people seem to warn against the FI cars of the early 80s; most recommend the carbed cars of the late 70s or going for the quattrovalve of the the mid-80s.

Emanuel

[reed930]

I think the 308/328 models are cars that you fall in love with when you see them but your interest lessens over time. The 911, on the other hand, you grow to love. Sort of like a favorite pair of jeans.

I know I'm not the first one to make this reference, but I would compare the 911 to Audrey Hepburn and the Ferrari to Britney Spears. Britney might be fun for a night, but I certainly know with whom I would want to have a long-term relationship.

[cegerer]

What about the 246GTS?? OK, I think we're up in the $60K range for a good one, but what about reliability, etc. Same deal as the rest of them??? -- Curt

[Zeke]

You don't have to pull the 911 motor every 25,000 mi. to change the cam timing belts. That's a requirement on a 308.

[pwd72s]

Reading the local classifieds, the 308's do seem relatively cheap. So, this means they are Ferrari's version of the 924?

[epbrown]

Curt, the 246 GTS was recently profiled in SCM:

Driving a Dino was as exciting as looking at one. The Ferrari-designed, Fiat-built V6 is an impressive piece of work with a distinctive sound and reasonable performance. Its 195-horespower moved the 2300-lb. Dino from 0-60 in a respectable 6.8 seconds. The power was found high in the rpm range and spiritied driving required lots of shifting.

The need for driver's input was a contrast from the big engine Ferraris, and it made the Dino a sports car rather than a GT car. The mid-engine design with its low center of gravity raised the bar on handling and added confidence in both novice and experienced drivers. Owners found themselves looking for new twisty roads.

While the best examples are a pleasure to drive, good ones are few and far between. New Dinos sold for around two-thirds the price of a contemporary Daytona, and while the missing 6 cylinders caused some of the disparity, there was a marked difference in component and build quality of the Dino. Everything on the Dino looked, felt, and was cheaper than the 12-cylinder Ferraris. While that meant a lower price, it also means more maintenance.

The Ferrari for the masses costs more than a Daytona to keep up, and these cars were being sold to people who, for the most part, were less prepared to pay for the maintenance. They were quite often ridden hard and put away wet. Worn components weren't repaired until they broke and quality wasn't goal one when making repairs.

A nice-looking car could have thousands of dollars of problems hiding under its skin, and often did. Rust, soft cams, and weak synchros are a few of the problems affecting Dinos, and any Ferrari shop can give you a list of more. A good look-over by a professional is essential for any Dino purchase."

Emanuel (man, I gotta get a scanner one of these days )

[epbrown]

Originally posted by pwd72s
Reading the local classifieds, the 308's do seem relatively cheap. So, this means they are Ferrari's version of the 924?

I wouldn't put it quite that way. In the Ferrari world, things begin and end with the 12-cylinder cars. Eventually all of the 8-cylinders sink lower and lower. I'd say it's more of a 928 situation - they hold their value okay, but are expensive to maintain and aren't the iconic models that everyone is looking for. Because of Ferrari maintenance costs, even of the cheaper cars, they don't get driven much and change hands often. That takes the fun out of them for a lot of owners.

I would say that the 246 Dino is like the Porsche Speedster of the 50s - a cheapo model that somehow outstrips all it's siblings in appreciation. I'm amazed how popular Dinos are, when you consider the performance specs and how uncomfortable they are. They're impractical for almost any use outside of weekend driving, and yet they're incredibly sought after. For the same money, I'd much rather own a Carrera 2.7 RS, and not because I'm a Porschephile - it's simply makes more sense if you're shopping for that vintage of sports car.

Emanuel

[reed930]

Last year I bought a 246 for a friend of mine. The 246 is really in a different league than the 308/328. First off, $60k is on the lower end of the 246 price range. Better ones generally sell in the $70-80k range. And for that kind of money, there are plenty of other cars that I would be looking at. 246s, like all Ferraris, are not for the casual owner. The car my friend now owns came with $25k in recent receipts and he still managed to spend $5k in the past year on maintenance. But, at least the 246 gives you something for all of the maintenance costs; IMO the 308/328 experience really is not all that special after the newness wears off.

Ferraris really make our Porsches seem like cheap transportation by comparison.

[yelcab1]

You change the timing belt on any 308 with the engine in the car, it is a 8-hour job. I did mine at home.

You do rebuild the engine at home, it is on the same scale of difficulty as a Porsche 911 engine. I did both, at home. Allow 6 months for all the machining, parts sourcing, etc to come through. Allow $5,000 for a DIY rebuild.

The 308 is probably not a day-to-day car like a 911, but the sound and the feeling is hard to beat.

If you want a 308, buy a pre-79 with 4 double barrel webers carbs. Or, buy a aft-84 308QV. THe mid years are low power hogs. Spend $25-$30 for a good clean sample. If you spend less, you will eventually get to that point anyway with all the money you have to put in. If you enjoy doing the work yourself, then ... more power to you.

Ferrarichat.com is the web site to read if you want advices. Good luck, 911 and Ferrari 308, different machines, but it is nice to have both.

Good luck.

[Harlan Chinn]

Ferraris are beautiful cars if you have the patience and checkbook to properly pay the mechanics if you choose that route. I have friends here that have mulitiples of everything from the 328, 360 Modena to the monster 12 cylinder vintage Daytonas. Most owners sadly keep theirs as garage queens driving them only for short runs and keeping the mileage under the next service interval before they decide it's time to sell their investment. You might check with the local Ferrari shop to find out what that interval service will run, more than likely it'll be around 5k. Most services of course require that the engine be removed. You can't really consider touring in a Ferrari unless you pack only the essentials and travel alone as there is little useful storage area compared to that of a 911. If you do tour with a Ferrari, be prepared to have lots of towing insurance as you will not find a Ferrari mechanic in every town. Parts, well that is another problem, location of and eventual shipping can result in weeks to months. Pre-owned cars generally are constant projects or constantly in the shop.
308's are regarded as the "Miami Vice" car. The later 328 is far better car. If you decide to get one keep a 911 as the daily driver.

[GSpreeman]

I'm sure I'll get one someday...just not as soon as I thought. Too bad they are such mechanical nightmares.