To safari or not to safari...

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by fallingat120mph

Just came from the Hill Country Rallye in Texas and there were actually more safari builds there than I expected.

From someone who has traveled by moto and an older modified Land Rover on three different continents there were times where I wish owned a slightly "safaried" 911.

Fast forward and I have moved from Texas to the Midwest and a safari build here would be great. From 4 seasons, pot holes from the salted roads, to so many gravel roads just the ground clearance alone would be incredibly useful.

In fact, we have been looking for properties out in the country, 10 plus acres and mostly on gravel roads. So, the thought has crossed my mind a few times with my 86.

All that said, as the owner of "near" show cars to my last eBay fly in and drive home 180,000 miles plus 911, if you do it tastefully and don't shortcut, I think there are buyers out there. The examples you posted photos of I am sure there is a happy medium you could aim for.


From someone who understands the purist side of things I also think it gets taken too far...I have owned everything from a 1949 Land Rover, 70's MG's, 73 Saab, mid 80's RX7's, mid 80's VW Sciroccos, 80's Classic Range Rovers, to modern day cars and motorcycles and I have never seen a group more worried about resale than Porsche owners. Which I respectfully understand...but...


My advice is have a vision, keep it honest, don't Frankenstein the thing and have fun with the build. I think there are more people around here, than one thinks, that love watching these safari build threads secretly...I being one of them

Just at the Porsche dealer in Kansas City (a couple times over the past few weeks) and out back there was a mint green, mid 80s, you guessed it Safari build...they are out there and there is a market, but as others have stated just has to be the right day and the right time for the right buyer. You enthusiastically seem to understand this and open to pros and cons, so that alone is a good start.



All the best!
Erik



Not mine, but these two caught a lot of attention at the Rallye. Especially from the young (and the young at heart):

I appreciate the thoughts and vote of confidence! I still haven't decided, but like you, I've seen a lot of safari builds out there lately and there is definitely a large and growing following for them. I lived in WI in a county with mostly dirt/gravel roads and a rally inspired 911 would have been nirvana...my Subaru rally car was a pretty fun substitute though lol.

On that front, if anyone is looking for an amazing road trip, take an AWD or 4x4 vehicle and do the Trans Wisconsin Adventure Trail, lovingly referred to as the "TWAT." It's 600 miles of the best roads in WI, starting at the IL border and ending at the northernmost town in WI (Cornucopia) on Lake Superior, about 50:50 paved to gravel/dirt. It was originally created as a dual sport route, did it once on my Cagiva Gran Canyon, but they also modified it into an overland route that I did in my AWD GMC Savana van and a buddy did in his Subaru wagon. It's an incredible route, beautiful changing scenery and great roads, with great camping along the way, a must do for backroad and camping enthusiasts, one of the best adventures of my life.

I love going to rallies (not political )...the fans are amazing, the race teams are welcoming, and the eclectic mix of race and spectator cars is second to none. Here's me and my old rally built Subaru with rally legend Petter Solberg at the Lake Superior Performance Rally in the "UP." That's another experience I highly recommend, one of the great events in motorsports.

[JKarow08]

Does anyone have any definitive information on this style of bumper bar/bow? I've read it was/is a genuine Porsche part, that it is an Amco bar (that may or may not have been available through Porsche as an option), and that it wasn't Porsche or Amco but another unknown aftermarket brand. They definitely seem to be period correct at minimum and I've seen a few very stock appearing early cars with them, making me think they were indeed available from Porsche one way or another. Any insight?

[Series900]

Originally Posted by JKarow08

Does anyone have any definitive information on this style of bumper bar/bow? I've read it was/is a genuine Porsche part, that it is an Amco bar

Definitive or at least what I know… the bar above was a factory installed bar. I have one on a 67S, don’t recall it being listed on the kardex. Pretty sure it’s stainless also. The Amco bars were an aftermarket chrome part and drilled into and between the bumperettes. And then rusted! Rather ugly add on to “protect” the hood.
I will add that both bar styles make the hood latch less accessible.
In regards to safari or not. It’s your car, do what you like. Cash out reward is a gamble on modified. Color change is always a debate. Mods have the same debate. Long run…stock original is the blue chip. The argument will be but this car, that car and several others brought big money. Go fish! It’s a big pond and life’s short. I have also warned customers, modifications have ramifications!

I’m finishing a 73T overall now, leaving it sepia and black bumperettes front and back. Only mod is a steel based ducktail that I make, and can be easily swapped back. The next owner can make that call.

I built this , great challenge and fantastic memories including east to west coast and back! From a 94 C4…my drive to work

Utah…


Big Sur…

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by Series900

Definitive or at least what I know… the bar above was a factory installed bar. I have one on a 67S, don’t recall it being listed on the kardex. Pretty sure it’s stainless also. The Amco bars were an aftermarket chrome part and drilled into and between the bumperettes. And then rusted! Rather ugly add on to “protect” the hood.
I will add that both bar styles make the hood latch less accessible.
In regards to safari or not. It’s your car, do what you like. Cash out reward is a gamble on modified. Color change is always a debate. Mods have the same debate. Long run…stock original is the blue chip. The argument will be but this car, that car and several others brought big money. Go fish! It’s a big pond and life’s short. I have also warned customers, modifications have ramifications!

I’m finishing a 73T overall now, leaving it sepia and black bumperettes front and back. Only mod is a steel based ducktail that I make, and can be easily swapped back. The next owner can make that call.

I built this , great challenge and fantastic memories including east to west coast and back! From a 94 C4…my drive to work

Utah…


Big Sur…

I appreciate the insight! I wish I could find that style in someone's Kardex or one of the accessory catalogs to close the loop on this style of bar, but accounts like yours definitely point to them being a Porsche supplied part. Interesting you think it's stainless, thats the first I've heard that and an added bonus. I definitely prefer this style bar to the Amco front, these actually add a little "rally flair." This style bar also pairs well with the rear single bar that mounts on top of the bumperettes instead of in between. They are equally as rare, wonder if they were offered at the same time.

I appreciate yours (and everyone's) thoughtful opinion on this. I'm surprised I haven't been berated for even asking something so blasphemous It sounds like everyone sees this much like I do...doing anything radical is likely a recipe for disaster on resale, a classy rally approach maybe less so, but all modifications are a gamble that may or may not pay off on the return. The offset in enjoyment on the build may be worth the price, just need to strike a healthy balance that is acceptable for each individual owner. At least it doesn't sound like anyone will be burning a cross in my lawn if I do go through with it (unless I pull out the sawzall)

There definitely won't be a color change in this girl's future, it looks like she is a 1 of 1 champagne T for '73. Plus, she went into a heated garage in 79 and never came back out so she is completely rust free. Other than a few minor touch ups and a good buff/wax, the bodywork is near perfect. The more I dig into OE available Porsche parts, the more I'm tempted to go down the rally inspired path. It looks like almost everything I would put on her would be Porsche OE (or repro) other than the tires which are basically OE size in a knobbie. I know 6 of the original STs were rally builds, and it looks like Porsche offered a rally inspired build for the masses if you optioned the bars, flaps, and lights. It can't be bad if Porsche offered it that way right?

That C4 is nasty! You built my dream car! I recently drove 7500 miles around the west in my AWD van, mostly on dirt/gravel national forest roads...I can't imagine what that trip would have been like in your car! Keep up the good work!

[JKarow08]

More fuel for my dirty desires...

[JKarow08]

Didn't know about these sweet Porsche mud flaps until I saw that car...I love 'em!

[Cory M]

Originally Posted by mepstein

Safari cars look really cool and I’m sure a lot of fun but if your goal is to sell it, you want to go as stock as possible. That will hit the majority of buyers compared to the safari or any hot rod theme. Just like selling real estate, the highly personalized cars, houses, whatever, appeals to a smaller niche of buyers than the more stock, mainstream product. If your goal is to sell, then don’t build it for you, build it for the most likely buyer.

+1

Vanilla sells ..

[Cory M]

You may be able to get away with just cranking your torsion bars up for a small lift. We're so used to seeing slammed 911's that they look raised even at stock height. If you decide to go the rally route and want a decent suspension I've got an almost new Bilstein set-up with raised spindle struts I can deal on. We've upgraded to MCS.

[PeteKz]

What is the source for the Porsche mud flaps?

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by Cory M

+1

Vanilla sells ..

I know...the problem is I'm far from a vanilla type of guy lol.

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

What is the source for the Porsche mud flaps?

There is/was a couple of guys over on the 911s registry that were selling some reproductions they had made, one had brackets to mount them as well. I haven't contacted them to see if they still have any, have also seen them for sale on Samba, may take some searching to find. I do really like them though...

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by Cory M

You may be able to get away with just cranking your torsion bars up for a small lift. We're so used to seeing slammed 911's that they look raised even at stock height. If you decide to go the rally route and want a decent suspension I've got an almost new Bilstein set-up with raised spindle struts I can deal on. We've upgraded to MCS.

That was my plan/thought, a small lift by cranking the torsion bars, they are at a pretty decent rally height stock already. The Bilstein 1000 lakes front inserts and rear shocks should fix the valving issue and the stock torsion bars are plenty soft for rally. That's my thought...with basically no real mods and just adding some Porsche optional parts you could make a pretty capable and cool/classy looking rally inspired car for the street that would make a great daily for a lot of people.

Seeing stables like yours doesn't make the choice any easier

[JKarow08]

So...after much soul searching and debate, against my better judgement (and the much appreciated opinions of many of you), I have decided to go through with the rally inspired build. The more I dug, the more cool/rare rally oriented Porsche OE available parts I found, and the more I was drawn to realizing my vision in the way Porsche intended and made available. I've yet to see anyone put together a car with all of the rally oriented accessories, and this is my opportunity to create something that is unique yet still true to the originality of the car and era. As others have mentioned, nobody can accurately guess the end value, and I think a classy rally build has the possibility of drawing more attention as much as it has the potential to turn some away, only the auction results will tell in the end. I like to think I have pretty good taste and have done well on cars sales over the years as a result, and I've decided this is no time to abandon my vision. In the end, a rally build excites me more than anything else, and I'm willing to roll the dice on the outcome. Greatness only come to those that have passion and take risks, hopefully that pays off on this build in the end.

Thanks for the rational and measured opinions here gentleman, I'll start a build thread soon to keep you in the loop on the progess.

[richardrobert]

I know the red car above very well, it's a friend of mine. He has owned many 911s and this is by far his favorite. The Rat Rod. 1976 Mid year with flares. 500+ horses under the hood, modified suspension, and gears. He's not allowed to wash it! It is a Rally machine.

[PeteKz]

Originally Posted by JKarow08

There is/was a couple of guys over on the 911s registry that were selling some reproductions they had made, one had brackets to mount them as well. I haven't contacted them to see if they still have any, have also seen them for sale on Samba, may take some searching to find. I do really like them though...

Thanks.

[fallingat120mph]

Originally Posted by JKarow08

So...after much soul searching and debate, against my better judgement (and the much appreciated opinions of many of you), I have decided to go through with the rally inspired build. The more I dug, the more cool/rare rally oriented Porsche OE available parts I found, and the more I was drawn to realizing my vision in the way Porsche intended and made available. I've yet to see anyone put together a car with all of the rally oriented accessories, and this is my opportunity to create something that is unique yet still true to the originality of the car and era. As others have mentioned, nobody can accurately guess the end value, and I think a classy rally build has the possibility of drawing more attention as much as it has the potential to turn some away, only the auction results will tell in the end. I like to think I have pretty good taste and have done well on cars sales over the years as a result, and I've decided this is no time to abandon my vision. In the end, a rally build excites me more than anything else, and I'm willing to roll the dice on the outcome. Greatness only come to those that have passion and take risks, hopefully that pays off on this build in the end.

Thanks for the rational and measured opinions here gentleman, I'll start a build thread soon to keep you in the loop on the progess.

https://youtu.be/t3_yBf4N6IE?si=4ddW8Q-xDn9s1DlC


For those rainy days in the shop


Erik

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by PeteKz

Thanks.

As an FYI..."JimmyT" over on early S still has the flaps (poly repros), he's out of the brackets but is going to be making more. He also has/makes repros of the long hood OE skid plates. I was able to track down his email if you are interested and don't have an early S membership, just shoot me a PM and I'll give it to you.

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by fallingat120mph

https://youtu.be/t3_yBf4N6IE?si=4ddW8Q-xDn9s1DlC


For those rainy days in the shop


Erik

It's another sunny day down here in Nica but now I know what I'm watching with my afternoon cigar

[JKarow08]

Originally Posted by fallingat120mph

https://youtu.be/t3_yBf4N6IE?si=4ddW8Q-xDn9s1DlC


For those rainy days in the shop


Erik

Thanks...just watched that...now I have something else at the top of my bucket list

After I get my business off the ground down here in Nica I plan on building another rally car to compete in the WRC affiliated events down here in Costa Rica. I'd love to build a 914, but there isn't much to choose from down here, will likely be another Subaru or maybe a vintage Toyota, have always wanted to build an early 80s Starlet.

[PeteKz]

Originally Posted by JKarow08

As an FYI..."JimmyT" over on early S still has the flaps (poly repros), he's out of the brackets but is going to be making more. He also has/makes repros of the long hood OE skid plates. I was able to track down his email if you are interested and don't have an early S membership, just shoot me a PM and I'll give it to you.

Sure, please send me his email. I'm not a member of the Early 911S. Thanks, PK